org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Gabriele Lana]

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Hi,

  following the conventions (https://orgmode.org/manual/Conventions.html)
"Keywords and blocks are written in uppercase to enhance their readability"
but since 9.2 all blocks inserted are lowercase, why?

Is there a clean way to put them back in uppercase? I mean alse the ~BEGIN~
and ~END~ part of the blocks

Thanks

-- 
Gabriele Lana
https://github.com/gabrielelana
https://twitter.com/gabrielelana

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Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Amin Bandali]

On 2019-01-25  3:05 PM, Gabriele Lana wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   following the conventions (https://orgmode.org/manual/Conventions.html)
> "Keywords and blocks are written in uppercase to enhance their readability"
> but since 9.2 all blocks inserted are lowercase, why?
>
> Is there a clean way to put them back in uppercase? I mean alse the ~BEGIN~
> and ~END~ part of the blocks
>

Just to throw in my 2¢, I personally strongly prefer the less-obnoxious
all-lowercase variant for all ‘#+’ keywords, though I do sometimes use
uppercase for things like #+TITLE or #+AUTHOR every now and again.

I think it would be nice to provide a defcusom to allow choosing between
upper vs. lowercase.  As of now, you should be able to get all uppercase
by customizing the `org-tempo-keywords-alist' list and by redefining
`org-tempo-add-block' (for the “begin” and “end” parts) in org-tempo.el.

>
> Thanks
>
> -- 
> Gabriele Lana
> https://github.com/gabrielelana
> https://twitter.com/gabrielelana

Best,
amin

Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Gabriele Lana <gabriele.lana@gmail.com> writes:

>   following the conventions (https://orgmode.org/manual/Conventions.html)
> "Keywords and blocks are written in uppercase to enhance their readability"
> but since 9.2 all blocks inserted are lowercase, why?

To make it clear, this convention is for the /manual/ only, not for Org
syntax. Blocks are case insensitive.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

Amin Bandali <bandali@gnu.org> writes:
[...]
> I think it would be nice to provide a defcusom to allow choosing between
> upper vs. lowercase.
that would make the exchange of Org files with colleagues and other Org
aficionados complicated, wouldn't it? As Nicolas said, blocks are
case-insensitive, meaning one could write them down according to one's
liking ;). 

Regards
hmw

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10th + 11th August 2019, Sankt Augustin, Bonn Area/Germany
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Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Tim Cross]

I totally agree that block delimiters should be case
insensitive. However, I think the ability for a user to set their
preference for either upper case or lower case is reasonable. It does
not need to affect the syntactic interpretation, just whether the
template system does it in upper case or lower case. I have no idea how
much more complex this would make the tempo definitions though.

Tim

Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Amin Bandali <bandali@gnu.org> writes:
> [...]
>> I think it would be nice to provide a defcusom to allow choosing between
>> upper vs. lowercase.
> that would make the exchange of Org files with colleagues and other Org
> aficionados complicated, wouldn't it? As Nicolas said, blocks are
> case-insensitive, meaning one could write them down according to one's
> liking ;). 
>
> Regards
> hmw


-- 
Tim Cross

Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> I totally agree that block delimiters should be case
> insensitive. However, I think the ability for a user to set their
> preference for either upper case or lower case is reasonable. It does
> not need to affect the syntactic interpretation, just whether the
> template system does it in upper case or lower case. I have no idea how
> much more complex this would make the tempo definitions though.
ah, I understand. I had the generating part as well as the parsing part
in mind when I wrote my last posting. But you are right, making
customisable how the blocks are generated wouldn't hurt anyone, I think.
Maybe it is enough to change org-create-dblock, maybe there are more
places to look at.

Regards
hmw

Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[stardiviner]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> I totally agree that block delimiters should be case
> insensitive. However, I think the ability for a user to set their
> preference for either upper case or lower case is reasonable. It does
> not need to affect the syntactic interpretation, just whether the
> template system does it in upper case or lower case. I have no idea how
> much more complex this would make the tempo definitions though.
>
> Tim
>
> Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> writes:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Amin Bandali <bandali@gnu.org> writes:
>> [...]
>>> I think it would be nice to provide a defcusom to allow choosing between
>>> upper vs. lowercase.
>> that would make the exchange of Org files with colleagues and other Org
>> aficionados complicated, wouldn't it? As Nicolas said, blocks are
>> case-insensitive, meaning one could write them down according to one's
>> liking ;). 
>>
>> Regards
>> hmw

I agree. I upvote an option for this option. I remember there is an
option before, but someday it's gone. Now still has a similar option
`org-babel-uppercase-example-markers'. They can be merged if someone
want to add a patch.

-- 
[ stardiviner ]
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Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Gabriele Lana]

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On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 18:01, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
wrote:


> >   following the conventions (https://orgmode.org/manual/Conventions.html
> )
> > "Keywords and blocks are written in uppercase to enhance their
> readability"
> > but since 9.2 all blocks inserted are lowercase, why?
>
> To make it clear, this convention is for the /manual/ only, not for Org
> syntax. Blocks are case insensitive.
>

Thanks for the clarification, still, it seems odd that the manual uses a
convention that Org (since 9.2) kind of force you to break

Ex. if I want to wrap a result from a source block evaluation the ~begin_~
and ~end_~ tags will be lowercase unless I start to advice functions

I'm quite puzzled because it seems an arbitrary choice forced to the user
with no clear reasons

-- 
Gabriele Lana
https://github.com/gabrielelana
https://twitter.com/gabrielelana

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Re: org-tempo violating org-mode conventions since 9.2

[Gabriele Lana]

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On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 17:04, Amin Bandali <bandali@gnu.org> wrote:

> Just to throw in my 2¢, I personally strongly prefer the less-obnoxious
> all-lowercase variant for all ‘#+’ keywords, though I do sometimes use
> uppercase for things like #+TITLE or #+AUTHOR every now and again.
>
> I think it would be nice to provide a defcusom to allow choosing between
> upper vs. lowercase.  As of now, you should be able to get all uppercase
> by customizing the `org-tempo-keywords-alist' list and by redefining
> `org-tempo-add-block' (for the “begin” and “end” parts) in org-tempo.el.
>

+1 for the ~defcustom~ :-)

-- 
Gabriele Lana
https://github.com/gabrielelana
https://twitter.com/gabrielelana

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