Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Nathan Dehnel]

I feel there should be a "guix manual" command that opens the latest
version of your local copy in a new tab of whatever your XDG web
browser is

Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Nathan Dehnel <ncdehnel@gmail.com> writes:

> I feel there should be a "guix manual" command that opens the latest
> version of your local copy in a new tab of whatever your XDG web
> browser is

Across the wider GNU system the command for accessing manuals is “info”
followed by the name of the manual, e.g. “info guix” or “info
guix-cookbook”.

-- 
Ricardo

Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Nathan Dehnel]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 565 bytes --]

Yeah but that doesn't open the nicely formatted browser version of the
manual

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 01:36 Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> wrote:

>
> Nathan Dehnel <ncdehnel@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I feel there should be a "guix manual" command that opens the latest
> > version of your local copy in a new tab of whatever your XDG web
> > browser is
>
> Across the wider GNU system the command for accessing manuals is “info”
> followed by the name of the manual, e.g. “info guix” or “info
> guix-cookbook”.
>
> --
> Ricardo
>

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Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Simon Tournier]

Hi Ricardo,

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 at 08:35, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> wrote:

> Across the wider GNU system the command for accessing manuals is “info”
> followed by the name of the manual, e.g. “info guix” or “info
> guix-cookbook”.

Yeah but for instance I barely use Info because I never remember how to
navigate and often I have an approximate idea about what I am looking
for and in this case, I am faster with the HTML documentation.

Well, the manual is not shipped with its HTML version.  And I would be
more interested to have an HTML version of the manual with the nice CSS
and friends than to locally have the manual in all the languages – that
I do not speak. :-)

    (Aside, from some sobriety point of view – avoiding to download
stuff that I “waste” – all these translated manuals that I do not read
is about 500KB * 5 = 2.5MB.  The absolute number is not much but at the
end of the day, times the number of “guix time-machine”, it cannot be
neglected, IMHO.)

Cheers,
simon

Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> skribis:

> On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 at 08:35, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> wrote:
>
>> Across the wider GNU system the command for accessing manuals is “info”
>> followed by the name of the manual, e.g. “info guix” or “info
>> guix-cookbook”.
>
> Yeah but for instance I barely use Info because I never remember how to
> navigate and often I have an approximate idea about what I am looking
> for and in this case, I am faster with the HTML documentation.

That’s fine, we all have our preferences.  :-)

What makes Info (whether in Emacs or the ‘info’ command) appealing to me
is that (1) it’s straight on my machine and off-line, (2) I’m sure I’m
looking at the version of the manual that corresponds to the version I’m
using, and (3) there are efficient and IMO intuitive navigation key
bindings (‘n’ for ‘next’, ‘i’ for ‘index’, arrows to scroll, etc.)

Should we expand
<https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Documentation.html>?

Though again, it’s okay if others prefer to browse the HTML doc.

Ludo’.

Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Simon Tournier]

Hi,

On Wed, 04 Oct 2023 at 17:33, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:

>> Yeah but for instance I barely use Info because I never remember how to
>> navigate and often I have an approximate idea about what I am looking
>> for and in this case, I am faster with the HTML documentation.
>
> That’s fine, we all have our preferences.  :-)
>
> What makes Info (whether in Emacs or the ‘info’ command) appealing to me
> is that (1) it’s straight on my machine and off-line, (2) I’m sure I’m
> looking at the version of the manual that corresponds to the version I’m
> using, and (3) there are efficient and IMO intuitive navigation key
> bindings (‘n’ for ‘next’, ‘i’ for ‘index’, arrows to scroll, etc.)

Yeah, I never remember Emacs navigation keys because I do not find them
intuitive.  And I consider myself being comfortable with Emacs. :-)

* usually the converse of the key ’f’, here doing action

    f	Follow a cross reference. Prompts for name.

is the key ’b’ but not here, it is ’l’:

    l	Go back to the last node you were at. (chronological)
    b	Go to beginning of node.

Well, as with EWW but I find that counter-intuitive.

* the key ’<’ is counter-intuitive for me

    <	Go to first node ("Top") of current Info file.

compared to EWW for instance,

    <               beginning-of-buffer

Or usually Alt-< is for beginning-of-buffer.

* search is not intuitive: s term1 term2 RET then I expect to just type
RET (as suggested «Use ‘s RET’ to search again for ‘term1 term2’.») but
no: «Point neither on reference nor in menu item description».  So I
have to type again ’s’ then RET.  I can go via Isearch but I am using
Swipper so C-s is not Isearch by default and Swipper does not jump
between the nodes by default, so I have to remember no C-s in this
mode.  Result, counter-intuitive for me.

* last the most important: open a new buffer for reading something still
keeping the other thing.  It is really counter-intuitive: C-u f or C-u m
depending on the nature of the link.  Also it is possible to clone Info
buffer.

All in all is it counter-intuitive for me when on the other hand, all my
needs of navigation are covered by only three:

    Right-Click -> Open… and C-f and Alt-Arrow


> Should we expand
> <https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Documentation.html>?

Well, from my side, I do not see what could be improved.  Or make Info
navigation less counter-intuitive for me? ;-)

Another annoyance, for instance reading your email, I just press ’B RET’
and Emacs opens the link that I browse.  I have nothing similar with
Info.

> Though again, it’s okay if others prefer to browse the HTML doc.

Ok, let be back about your points:

    >         (1) it’s straight on my machine and off-line, (2) I’m sure I’m
    > looking at the version of the manual that corresponds to the version I’m
    > using

About #1, that’s because we do not ship the HTML versions else it would
also be « straight on my machine and off-line ». :-)  For instance, on
Debian:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
$ find /usr/share/ -type f -name "*.html" -print | wc -l
370
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

About #2, it is related to #1. :-)

Well, as I said elsewhere: (a) we need to keep in mind the size of the
documentation and (b) it will be better to also have CSS for a nicer
rendering, :-)

Cheers,
simon

Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hi Simon,

Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Ricardo,
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 at 08:35, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> wrote:
>
>> Across the wider GNU system the command for accessing manuals is “info”
>> followed by the name of the manual, e.g. “info guix” or “info
>> guix-cookbook”.

Not to preach, but I've spent some time looking at 'info info' once and
I'm sold to it now.  I basically use these keys: 'g' to navigate to
nodes, 'm' to select a menu, 'space' to page down and 'backspace' to
page up.

Additional niceties: 'u' to go up a node, C-s to search, etc.

That should cover the basics, and I find that much faster to work with
than the HTML version.

-- 
Thanks,
Maxim

Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date

[Simon Tournier]

Hi Maxim,

On Sat, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:11, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not to preach, but I've spent some time looking at 'info info' once and
> I'm sold to it now.  I basically use these keys: 'g' to navigate to
> nodes, 'm' to select a menu, 'space' to page down and 'backspace' to
> page up.

Yeah the tutorial is really good!  Well, I did it several times over the
past 10 years and, as I said, my muscle memory has hard time with
keybindings.  Hum, let try once again. :-)

Well, I added this to my configuration:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(define-key Info-mode-map (kbd "W")
    #'(lambda ()
        "Stash the current node name as URL for online manual."
        (interactive)
        (Info-copy-current-node-name)
        (let* ((node (pop kill-ring))
               (that (if (string-match "(\\([[:alnum:]]+\\)) \\(.*\\)" node)
                         (if (string= "guix" (match-string 1 node))
                             (concat
                              "https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/guix.html#"
                              (replace-regexp-in-string " " "-"
                                                        (match-string 2 node)))
                           node)
                       node)))
          (kill-new that)
          (message "%s" that))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Let see if I use it. ;-)

Cheers,
simon

Useful Info related Emacs functions (was Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date)

[Matt]

 ---- On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 19:55:17 +0200  Simon Tournier  wrote --- 

 > On Sat, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:11, Maxim Cournoyer maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> wrote:
 > 
 > > Not to preach, but I've spent some time looking at 'info info' once and
 > > I'm sold to it now.  I basically use these keys: 'g' to navigate to
 > > nodes, 'm' to select a menu, 'space' to page down and 'backspace' to
 > > page up.
 > 
 > Yeah the tutorial is really good!  Well, I did it several times over the
 > past 10 years and, as I said, my muscle memory has hard time with
 > keybindings.  Hum, let try once again. :-)
 > 
 > Well, I added this to my configuration:
 > 
 > --88---
 > (define-key Info-mode-map (kbd "W")
 >     #'(lambda ()
 >         "Stash the current node name as URL for online manual."
 >         (interactive)
 >         (Info-copy-current-node-name)
 >         (let* ((node (pop kill-ring))
 >                (that (if (string-match "(\\([[:alnum:]]+\\)) \\(.*\\)" node)
 >                          (if (string= "guix" (match-string 1 node))
 >                              (concat
 >                               "https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/guix.html#"
 >                               (replace-regexp-in-string " " "-"
 >                                                         (match-string 2 node)))
 >                            node)
 >                        node)))
 >           (kill-new that)
 >           (message "%s" that))))
 > --88---
 > 
 > Let see if I use it. ;-)

Three unasked for tips:

1. There is also 'i' to search index topics
2. In the Emacs info browser, there is the command 'info-apropos' which (as far as I know) isn't bound to anything by default.  I bind it to 'a'.  It searches across *all* manuals on your system for a regex and presents a menu of results.
3.  I have a similar function to yours that I've expanded over the years which you may appreciate.  It's set up to work with the Guix, Guile, and Emacs manuals and will format a link as a URL or an Org mode link and place it in the kill-ring.  There is also an option to open the web version with the default browser.

(defun xc/Info-link-to-current-node (&optional arg)
  "Format current info node as url.

With no prefix, place the url corresponding to the current Info
node into the kill ring.

With universal prefix, visit url with default web browser and do
not put url into the kill ring.

With numeric prefix, create Org link with node name as
description into the kill ring."
  (interactive "p")
  (unless Info-current-node
    (user-error "No current Info node"))
  (let* ((info-file (if (stringp Info-current-file)
                        (file-name-sans-extension
                         (file-name-nondirectory Info-current-file))))
         (node Info-current-node)
         (url (cond
               ((or (string= info-file "emacs") (string= info-file "org"))
                (concat "https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/"
                        info-file "/"
                        (if (string= node "Top") ""
                          (concat (replace-regexp-in-string " " "-" node t) ".html"))))
               ((string= info-file "guile")
                (concat "https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/"
                        (if (string= node "Top") ""
                          (concat (replace-regexp-in-string " " "-" node t) ".html"))))
               ((string= info-file "guix")
                (concat "https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/html_node/"
                        (if (string= node "Top") ""
                          (concat (replace-regexp-in-string " " "-" node t) ".html"))))
               )))
    (cond
     ((eq arg 1)  ; no prefix
      (kill-new url)
      (message "%s" (car kill-ring)))
     ((eq arg 4)  ; universal prefix
      (browse-url-default-browser url))
     (t           ; any other prefix
      (kill-new (format "[[%s][%s]]" url node))
      (message "%s" (car kill-ring))))))

I have it bound as:

    (general-def :keymaps 'Info-mode-map
      "a" 'info-apropos
      "U" 'xc/Info-link-to-current-node                                                  ; [U]rl
      "G" '(lambda () (interactive) (xc/Info-link-to-current-node 4))     ; [G]o to web version
      "O" '(lambda () (interactive) (xc/Info-link-to-current-node 16))  ; [O]rg link formatted
      "h" 'nil  ; hitting 'h' by accident kills all window arrangement
      )

Re: Useful Info related Emacs functions (was Re: more than 1,800 dependent packages: website out of date)

[Simon Tournier]

Hi,

Cool!  Thanks for sharing.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 20:41, Matt <matt@excalamus.com> wrote:

>                ((string= info-file "guix")
>                 (concat "https://guix.gnu.org/en/manual/devel/en/html_node/"
>                         (if (string= node "Top") ""
>                           (concat (replace-regexp-in-string " " "-" node t) ".html"))))

And this is easier than mine. :-)

Cheers,
simon