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* wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
@ 2018-03-20 13:47 ng0
  2018-03-23  5:32 ` Chris Marusich
  2018-03-23 17:02 ` Mark H Weaver
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: ng0 @ 2018-03-20 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guix-devel

Hi!

I need some final input on topics I'm more liberal about.
Many many moons ago I started the work on Pale Moon. This
package has now moved into New Moon, which is what we are
allowed to redistribute with modifications (Pale Moon without
branding).

Issue 1 I addressed so far: The default homepage (after first
start and in general default) called a website which is questionable
in my opion: https://palemoon.start.me

I have patched the default home page to be gnu.org and gnu.org/s/guix


Next, can I keep the default bookmarks? They are:
- https://www.palemoon.org
- http://forum.palemoon.org/index.php
- https://www.palemoon.org/faq.shtml
- https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml



Finally, about:addons let's you install Addons from 2 repositories:
Pale Moon Add-ons Site and Mozilla Add-ons Site.
"Search all add-ons" queries the 2 repositories and lets you install
add-ons from the repositories.

In an ideal world, I would have figured out the integration for
plugins in the gnu-store by now. But I'm still testing, so:

How do I treat the addons page and functionality?
-- 
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://n0.is

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-20 13:47 wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package ng0
@ 2018-03-23  5:32 ` Chris Marusich
  2018-03-23 12:14   ` ng0
  2018-03-23 17:02 ` Mark H Weaver
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Chris Marusich @ 2018-03-23  5:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guix-devel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2314 bytes --]

ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:

> Issue 1 I addressed so far: The default homepage (after first
> start and in general default) called a website which is questionable
> in my opion: https://palemoon.start.me

Can the home page be customized in Newmoon?  If so, then in my personal
opinion it would be good to leave the upstream default as-is, and let
the user decide whether to change it.  The page seems fairly benign to
me, but I understand that some people might object to some of the links
(e.g., to Facebook).

As far as the FSDG is concerned, I don't think this matters either way.

> Next, can I keep the default bookmarks? They are:
> - https://www.palemoon.org
> - http://forum.palemoon.org/index.php
> - https://www.palemoon.org/faq.shtml
> - https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml

These all seem benign to me; presumably they will be useful for a user
of a browser based on Pale Moon, right?  Again, I feel like respecting
upstream's decision on the defaults is the right way to go.

> Finally, about:addons let's you install Addons from 2 repositories:
> Pale Moon Add-ons Site and Mozilla Add-ons Site.
> "Search all add-ons" queries the 2 repositories and lets you install
> add-ons from the repositories.
>
> In an ideal world, I would have figured out the integration for
> plugins in the gnu-store by now. But I'm still testing, so:

Do these add-on repositories contain or encourage the use of non-free
software?  If so, to remain FSDG-compliant, it might be necessary to
change Newmoon so that it points somewhere else, such as the Free
Software Directory (this is what GNU Icecat does when you click on "Get
Add-ons").

On the technical side of things, is it possible to install plugins in
the browser, or does it fail with Guix-specific problems (e.g., tried to
modify a file in the immutable store)?  If it's possible to install
plugins in "the usual way" (whatever that is for Newmoon), then that's
great, and maybe someday we can figure out how to integrate those
plugins with Guix, too.  If it isn't possible to install plugins, then
that's not so great, but if the browser is usable in spite of that, then
it's probably better to add the browser now and iterate on it - we could
figure out how to accommodate the plugins later.

-- 
Chris

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23  5:32 ` Chris Marusich
@ 2018-03-23 12:14   ` ng0
  2018-03-23 13:30     ` ng0
  2018-03-23 16:32     ` Chris Marusich
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: ng0 @ 2018-03-23 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chris Marusich; +Cc: guix-devel

Chris Marusich transcribed 3.2K bytes:
> ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
> 
> > Issue 1 I addressed so far: The default homepage (after first
> > start and in general default) called a website which is questionable
> > in my opion: https://palemoon.start.me
> 
> Can the home page be customized in Newmoon?  If so, then in my personal

Yes, I think you can create a profile and log in to customize.

> opinion it would be good to leave the upstream default as-is, and let
> the user decide whether to change it.  The page seems fairly benign to
> me, but I understand that some people might object to some of the links
> (e.g., to Facebook).
> 
> As far as the FSDG is concerned, I don't think this matters either way.

Huh. So this page would be okay in FSDG? Interesting.
I object to its content, but changes are trivial to make.

> > Next, can I keep the default bookmarks? They are:
> > - https://www.palemoon.org
> > - http://forum.palemoon.org/index.php
> > - https://www.palemoon.org/faq.shtml
> > - https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml
> 
> These all seem benign to me; presumably they will be useful for a user
> of a browser based on Pale Moon, right?  Again, I feel like respecting
> upstream's decision on the defaults is the right way to go.

Ok.

> > Finally, about:addons let's you install Addons from 2 repositories:
> > Pale Moon Add-ons Site and Mozilla Add-ons Site.
> > "Search all add-ons" queries the 2 repositories and lets you install
> > add-ons from the repositories.
> >
> > In an ideal world, I would have figured out the integration for
> > plugins in the gnu-store by now. But I'm still testing, so:
> 
> Do these add-on repositories contain or encourage the use of non-free
> software?  

It's the original Mozilla Webstore. I have no issues with that, but as far
as Icecat existence goes, GNU seems to have a problem with it.
The Pale Moon / Moonchild Productions webstore is more restricted in
licenses as far as I remember.

> If so, to remain FSDG-compliant, it might be necessary to
> change Newmoon so that it points somewhere else, such as the Free
> Software Directory (this is what GNU Icecat does when you click on "Get
> Add-ons").
>
> On the technical side of things, is it possible to install plugins in
> the browser, or does it fail with Guix-specific problems (e.g., tried to
> modify a file in the immutable store)?

I'll give it a try and report back.

> If it's possible to install
> plugins in "the usual way" (whatever that is for Newmoon), then that's
> great, and maybe someday we can figure out how to integrate those
> plugins with Guix, too.  If it isn't possible to install plugins, then
> that's not so great, but if the browser is usable in spite of that, then
> it's probably better to add the browser now and iterate on it - we could
> figure out how to accommodate the plugins later.

I've started experimenting with the extensions integration with Firefox ESR 54+,
if that is what you mean. As Gentoo patches it to make use of a vendor location
for other Mozilla-based products, and Archlinux as well as Nix, my guess is
that you just have to figure out the right combination of punchholes for our
Lispmachine :)
If that is what you meant.

> -- 
> Chris


Thanks for taking a look at this :)
-- 
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://n0.is

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23 12:14   ` ng0
@ 2018-03-23 13:30     ` ng0
  2018-03-24 10:16       ` Ricardo Wurmus
  2018-03-23 16:32     ` Chris Marusich
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: ng0 @ 2018-03-23 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chris Marusich, guix-devel

ng0 transcribed 3.2K bytes:
> Chris Marusich transcribed 3.2K bytes:
> > ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
> > 
> > > Issue 1 I addressed so far: The default homepage (after first
> > > start and in general default) called a website which is questionable
> > > in my opion: https://palemoon.start.me
> > 
> > Can the home page be customized in Newmoon?  If so, then in my personal
> 
> Yes, I think you can create a profile and log in to customize.
> 
> > opinion it would be good to leave the upstream default as-is, and let
> > the user decide whether to change it.  The page seems fairly benign to
> > me, but I understand that some people might object to some of the links
> > (e.g., to Facebook).
> > 
> > As far as the FSDG is concerned, I don't think this matters either way.
> 
> Huh. So this page would be okay in FSDG? Interesting.
> I object to its content, but changes are trivial to make.
> 
> > > Next, can I keep the default bookmarks? They are:
> > > - https://www.palemoon.org
> > > - http://forum.palemoon.org/index.php
> > > - https://www.palemoon.org/faq.shtml
> > > - https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml
> > 
> > These all seem benign to me; presumably they will be useful for a user
> > of a browser based on Pale Moon, right?  Again, I feel like respecting
> > upstream's decision on the defaults is the right way to go.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> > > Finally, about:addons let's you install Addons from 2 repositories:
> > > Pale Moon Add-ons Site and Mozilla Add-ons Site.
> > > "Search all add-ons" queries the 2 repositories and lets you install
> > > add-ons from the repositories.
> > >
> > > In an ideal world, I would have figured out the integration for
> > > plugins in the gnu-store by now. But I'm still testing, so:
> > 
> > Do these add-on repositories contain or encourage the use of non-free
> > software?  
> 
> It's the original Mozilla Webstore. I have no issues with that, but as far
> as Icecat existence goes, GNU seems to have a problem with it.
> The Pale Moon / Moonchild Productions webstore is more restricted in
> licenses as far as I remember.

http://addons.palemoon.org/extensions/ works manual. content from the few samples
I looked at point out licenses, only OSI-approved I found.
If you submit an addon: http://developer.palemoon.org/Add-ons:Site/Submit
you get to go through the submission and acceptance process, which includes:
- Optionally, you could also provide the following, to be shown on the add-on listing:
  - License - both OSI-approved licenses and custom licenses are allowed here. If a license is not provided, a default copyright notice is shown instead.

The current webstore of Mozilla is, unless you know how to navigate to old versions,
useless because in New Moon it displays this for Ghostery:

"This add-on requires a newer version of Firefox (at least version 52.0). You are using Firefox 27.9."

Is this good enough for us to mark Mozilla webstore as unusable for those
who don't want to hack around it ;)?

> > If so, to remain FSDG-compliant, it might be necessary to
> > change Newmoon so that it points somewhere else, such as the Free
> > Software Directory (this is what GNU Icecat does when you click on "Get
> > Add-ons").
> >
> > On the technical side of things, is it possible to install plugins in
> > the browser, or does it fail with Guix-specific problems (e.g., tried to
> > modify a file in the immutable store)?

I'vre installed Ublock updater, worked. I installed another addon, same.
So I guess despite my very small sample we could say in general addons
are functional.

> I'll give it a try and report back.
> 
> > If it's possible to install
> > plugins in "the usual way" (whatever that is for Newmoon), then that's
> > great, and maybe someday we can figure out how to integrate those
> > plugins with Guix, too.  If it isn't possible to install plugins, then
> > that's not so great, but if the browser is usable in spite of that, then
> > it's probably better to add the browser now and iterate on it - we could
> > figure out how to accommodate the plugins later.
> 
> I've started experimenting with the extensions integration with Firefox ESR 54+,
> if that is what you mean. As Gentoo patches it to make use of a vendor location
> for other Mozilla-based products, and Archlinux as well as Nix, my guess is
> that you just have to figure out the right combination of punchholes for our
> Lispmachine :)
> If that is what you meant.
> 
> > -- 
> > Chris
> 
> 
> Thanks for taking a look at this :)
> -- 
> A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
> https://n0.is
> 

-- 
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://n0.is

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23 12:14   ` ng0
  2018-03-23 13:30     ` ng0
@ 2018-03-23 16:32     ` Chris Marusich
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Chris Marusich @ 2018-03-23 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guix-devel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1073 bytes --]

ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:

>> As far as the FSDG is concerned, I don't think this matters either way.
>
> Huh. So this page would be okay in FSDG? Interesting.
> I object to its content, but changes are trivial to make.

I intended that statement as my own personal opinion, not as any sort of
official determination.  Let's discuss this and make sure we choose the
right approach.

To that end, I'm curious: can you share more about why you believe that
we should change the home page?  Because we follow the FSDG, we
definitely should do something like that if including the default home
page without changes would in fact cause us to violate the FSDG.  That
said, even if leaving the default home page in would not cause us to
violate the FSDG, we may still choose to change it if there is a good
reason to do so.  For example, hypothetically, if the web page's default
home page contained malware, then surely that would be a problem.

> Thanks for taking a look at this :)

My pleasure!  Thank you for taking the time to work on it.

-- 
Chris

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-20 13:47 wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package ng0
  2018-03-23  5:32 ` Chris Marusich
@ 2018-03-23 17:02 ` Mark H Weaver
  2018-03-23 17:48   ` ng0
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Mark H Weaver @ 2018-03-23 17:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guix-devel

Hi,

ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:

> I need some final input on topics I'm more liberal about.
> Many many moons ago I started the work on Pale Moon. This
> package has now moved into New Moon, which is what we are
> allowed to redistribute with modifications (Pale Moon without
> branding).

Do you know if the New Moon browser supports EME?  If so, it would need
to be disabled somehow.  The GNU FSDG specifically prohibits browsers
that support EME.

> Issue 1 I addressed so far: The default homepage (after first
> start and in general default) called a website which is questionable
> in my opion: https://palemoon.start.me
>
> I have patched the default home page to be gnu.org and gnu.org/s/guix
>
>
> Next, can I keep the default bookmarks? They are:
> - https://www.palemoon.org
> - http://forum.palemoon.org/index.php
> - https://www.palemoon.org/faq.shtml
> - https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml

I suspect that the default home page and bookmarks will need to be
changed.  Otherwise, we would be steering users towards obtaining the
Pale Moon browser, whose binary distribution is restricted by a nonfree
license.  See <https://www.palemoon.org/redist.shtml>

> Finally, about:addons let's you install Addons from 2 repositories:
> Pale Moon Add-ons Site and Mozilla Add-ons Site.
> "Search all add-ons" queries the 2 repositories and lets you install
> add-ons from the repositories.

We definitely need to avoid steering users toward the Mozilla Add-ons
Site, or any other add-on site that is not committed to including only
free software.  We could instead steer users toward the list of free
add-ons that's used by GNU IceCat.

Thanks for working on it.

      Mark

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23 17:02 ` Mark H Weaver
@ 2018-03-23 17:48   ` ng0
  2018-03-23 18:04     ` ng0
  2018-03-23 20:31     ` Mark H Weaver
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: ng0 @ 2018-03-23 17:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: guix-devel

Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.6K bytes:
> Hi,
> 
> ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
> 
> > I need some final input on topics I'm more liberal about.
> > Many many moons ago I started the work on Pale Moon. This
> > package has now moved into New Moon, which is what we are
> > allowed to redistribute with modifications (Pale Moon without
> > branding).
> 
> Do you know if the New Moon browser supports EME?  If so, it would need
> to be disabled somehow.  The GNU FSDG specifically prohibits browsers
> that support EME.

I have no idea if it has support for EME. I will check next month.

> > Issue 1 I addressed so far: The default homepage (after first
> > start and in general default) called a website which is questionable
> > in my opion: https://palemoon.start.me
> >
> > I have patched the default home page to be gnu.org and gnu.org/s/guix
> >
> >
> > Next, can I keep the default bookmarks? They are:
> > - https://www.palemoon.org
> > - http://forum.palemoon.org/index.php
> > - https://www.palemoon.org/faq.shtml
> > - https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml
> 
> I suspect that the default home page and bookmarks will need to be
> changed.  Otherwise, we would be steering users towards obtaining the
> Pale Moon browser, whose binary distribution is restricted by a nonfree
> license.  See <https://www.palemoon.org/redist.shtml>
>
> > Finally, about:addons let's you install Addons from 2 repositories:
> > Pale Moon Add-ons Site and Mozilla Add-ons Site.
> > "Search all add-ons" queries the 2 repositories and lets you install
> > add-ons from the repositories.
> 
> We definitely need to avoid steering users toward the Mozilla Add-ons
> Site, or any other add-on site that is not committed to including only
> free software.  We could instead steer users toward the list of free
> add-ons that's used by GNU IceCat.

Have you read my follow-up Emails with more details? I'm curious if
due to the issues mentioned there this is still necessary from the
GNU view on things.
I have no strong opinion on keeping the addons.
 
> Thanks for working on it.
> 
>       Mark
> 

-- 
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://n0.is

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23 17:48   ` ng0
@ 2018-03-23 18:04     ` ng0
  2018-03-23 22:04       ` Mark H Weaver
  2018-03-23 20:31     ` Mark H Weaver
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: ng0 @ 2018-03-23 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mark H Weaver, guix-devel

ng0 transcribed 2.1K bytes:
> Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.6K bytes:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
> > 
> > > I need some final input on topics I'm more liberal about.
> > > Many many moons ago I started the work on Pale Moon. This
> > > package has now moved into New Moon, which is what we are
> > > allowed to redistribute with modifications (Pale Moon without
> > > branding).
> > 
> > Do you know if the New Moon browser supports EME?  If so, it would need
> > to be disabled somehow.  The GNU FSDG specifically prohibits browsers
> > that support EME.
> 
> I have no idea if it has support for EME. I will check next month.

Actually I was able to find it now:

Media support
Media support is a regularly-discussed topic for Pale Moon users, since part of the user base would prefer a browser to also be a full-featured and fully dedicated&specialized media player. This is, however, not a goal of Pale Moon because of the inherent shift of focus from document content to media content. That being said, the Web has shifted to be more visual-media heavy and as such will require a browser to at least to some extent take on the media player role.

The following specific media streaming feature(s) is/are not on Pale Moon's roadmap:

    In-browser DRM (EME)

We are extending the browser (especially for Linux) with FFmpeg media as a replacement for the (generally problematic) GStreamer and libstagefright solutions that are currently in place. Work is underway to make this the default decoding/media back-end for all supported platforms.


source: https://www.palemoon.org/roadmap.shtml (is behind cloudflare without tor exception last time I tried)

> > > Issue 1 I addressed so far: The default homepage (after first
> > > start and in general default) called a website which is questionable
> > > in my opion: https://palemoon.start.me
> > >
> > > I have patched the default home page to be gnu.org and gnu.org/s/guix
> > >
> > >
> > > Next, can I keep the default bookmarks? They are:
> > > - https://www.palemoon.org
> > > - http://forum.palemoon.org/index.php
> > > - https://www.palemoon.org/faq.shtml
> > > - https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml
> > 
> > I suspect that the default home page and bookmarks will need to be
> > changed.  Otherwise, we would be steering users towards obtaining the
> > Pale Moon browser, whose binary distribution is restricted by a nonfree
> > license.  See <https://www.palemoon.org/redist.shtml>
> >
> > > Finally, about:addons let's you install Addons from 2 repositories:
> > > Pale Moon Add-ons Site and Mozilla Add-ons Site.
> > > "Search all add-ons" queries the 2 repositories and lets you install
> > > add-ons from the repositories.
> > 
> > We definitely need to avoid steering users toward the Mozilla Add-ons
> > Site, or any other add-on site that is not committed to including only
> > free software.  We could instead steer users toward the list of free
> > add-ons that's used by GNU IceCat.
> 
> Have you read my follow-up Emails with more details? I'm curious if
> due to the issues mentioned there this is still necessary from the
> GNU view on things.
> I have no strong opinion on keeping the addons.
>  
> > Thanks for working on it.
> > 
> >       Mark
> > 
> 
> -- 
> A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
> https://n0.is
> 

-- 
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://n0.is

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23 17:48   ` ng0
  2018-03-23 18:04     ` ng0
@ 2018-03-23 20:31     ` Mark H Weaver
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Mark H Weaver @ 2018-03-23 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guix-devel

ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:

> Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.6K bytes:
>> 
>> We definitely need to avoid steering users toward the Mozilla Add-ons
>> Site, or any other add-on site that is not committed to including only
>> free software.  We could instead steer users toward the list of free
>> add-ons that's used by GNU IceCat.
>
> Have you read my follow-up Emails with more details? I'm curious if
> due to the issues mentioned there this is still necessary from the
> GNU view on things.

I skimmed your other emails in this thread, but I'm not sure what
details you're referring to.  However, the GNU FSDG requirement is that
we may only steer users to third-party add-ons repositories that are
committed to including only free software.  Can you find evidence that
Pale Moon has made such a commitment for their add-ons repository?

    Thanks,
      Mark

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23 18:04     ` ng0
@ 2018-03-23 22:04       ` Mark H Weaver
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Mark H Weaver @ 2018-03-23 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guix-devel

ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:

> ng0 transcribed 2.1K bytes:
>> Mark H Weaver transcribed 1.6K bytes:
>> > Do you know if the New Moon browser supports EME?  If so, it would need
>> > to be disabled somehow.  The GNU FSDG specifically prohibits browsers
>> > that support EME.
>> 
>> I have no idea if it has support for EME. I will check next month.
>
> Actually I was able to find it now:
>
> Media support
> Media support is a regularly-discussed topic for Pale Moon users,
> since part of the user base would prefer a browser to also be a
> full-featured and fully dedicated&specialized media player. This is,
> however, not a goal of Pale Moon because of the inherent shift of
> focus from document content to media content. That being said, the Web
> has shifted to be more visual-media heavy and as such will require a
> browser to at least to some extent take on the media player role.
>
> The following specific media streaming feature(s) is/are not on Pale Moon's roadmap:
>
>     In-browser DRM (EME)

Looks good.  While this roadmap was last updated July 2017, I think we
can assume for now that EME is not currently an issue for the New Moon
browser.  Thanks for checking.

       Mark


> We are extending the browser (especially for Linux) with FFmpeg media
> as a replacement for the (generally problematic) GStreamer and
> libstagefright solutions that are currently in place. Work is underway
> to make this the default decoding/media back-end for all supported
> platforms.
>
>
> source: https://www.palemoon.org/roadmap.shtml (is behind cloudflare without tor exception last time I tried)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-23 13:30     ` ng0
@ 2018-03-24 10:16       ` Ricardo Wurmus
  2018-03-24 17:04         ` ng0
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ricardo Wurmus @ 2018-03-24 10:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ng0; +Cc: guix-devel


ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:

> If you submit an addon: http://developer.palemoon.org/Add-ons:Site/Submit
> you get to go through the submission and acceptance process, which includes:
> - Optionally, you could also provide the following, to be shown on the add-on listing:
>   - License - both OSI-approved licenses and custom licenses are allowed here. If a license is not provided, a default copyright notice is shown instead.

Since it may provide non-free software, we should not display the
default palemoon add-on interface.

> The current webstore of Mozilla is, unless you know how to navigate to old versions,
> useless because in New Moon it displays this for Ghostery:
>
> "This add-on requires a newer version of Firefox (at least version 52.0). You are using Firefox 27.9."
>
> Is this good enough for us to mark Mozilla webstore as unusable for those
> who don't want to hack around it ;)?

No.  The same applies as above.  (It doesn’t really matter that in the
end installing the software doesn’t work, in my opinion.)

--
Ricardo

GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6  2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC
https://elephly.net

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2018-03-24 10:16       ` Ricardo Wurmus
@ 2018-03-24 17:04         ` ng0
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: ng0 @ 2018-03-24 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ricardo Wurmus; +Cc: guix-devel, ng0

Ricardo Wurmus transcribed 1.1K bytes:
> 
> ng0 <ng0@n0.is> writes:
> 
> > If you submit an addon: http://developer.palemoon.org/Add-ons:Site/Submit
> > you get to go through the submission and acceptance process, which includes:
> > - Optionally, you could also provide the following, to be shown on the add-on listing:
> >   - License - both OSI-approved licenses and custom licenses are allowed here. If a license is not provided, a default copyright notice is shown instead.
> 
> Since it may provide non-free software, we should not display the
> default palemoon add-on interface.
> 
> > The current webstore of Mozilla is, unless you know how to navigate to old versions,
> > useless because in New Moon it displays this for Ghostery:
> >
> > "This add-on requires a newer version of Firefox (at least version 52.0). You are using Firefox 27.9."
> >
> > Is this good enough for us to mark Mozilla webstore as unusable for those
> > who don't want to hack around it ;)?
> 
> No.  The same applies as above.  (It doesn’t really matter that in the
> end installing the software doesn’t work, in my opinion.)
> 
> --
> Ricardo
> 
> GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6  2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC
> https://elephly.net
> 
> 

Okay, thanks for the further insight. I'll continue hacking Newmoon and see
what I can come up with.
-- 
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
https://n0.is

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
@ 2019-02-22  1:43 swedebugia
  2019-02-22 20:19 ` Mark H Weaver
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: swedebugia @ 2019-02-22  1:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mhw, guix-devel

Hi

 > Can you find evidence that
 > Pale Moon has made such a commitment for their add-ons repository?

I did not find any such statements. I did find non-free addons though. 
E.g. FireShot listed here: 
https://addons.palemoon.org/extensions/tools-and-utilities/

It took some time to find a non-free one, so I guess they are rare like 
1% of the total or less.

-- 
Cheers Swedebugia

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package
  2019-02-22  1:43 swedebugia
@ 2019-02-22 20:19 ` Mark H Weaver
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Mark H Weaver @ 2019-02-22 20:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: swedebugia; +Cc: guix-devel

Hi swedebugia,

swedebugia <swedebugia@riseup.net> writes:

>> Can you find evidence that
>> Pale Moon has made such a commitment for their add-ons repository?
> 
> I did not find any such statements. I did find non-free addons though. 
> E.g. FireShot listed here: 
> https://addons.palemoon.org/extensions/tools-and-utilities/
> 
> It took some time to find a non-free one, so I guess they are rare like 
> 1% of the total or less.

Thanks for looking into it.  The Guix project is committed to following
the GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG).  This includes a
commitment to not refer to third-party repositories except those
committed to including only free software.  Therefore, given your
findings, a prerequisite to including Pale Moon/Newmoon in Guix would be
to modify it so that it does not steer users toward addons.palemoon.org,
and never suggests installing nonfree plugins, etc.

The GNU FSDG states:

    A free system distribution must not steer users towards obtaining
    any nonfree information for practical use, or encourage them to do
    so.  The system should have no repositories for nonfree software and
    no specific recipes for installation of particular nonfree programs.
    Nor should the distribution refer to third-party repositories that
    are not committed to only including free software; even if they only
    have free software today, that may not be true tomorrow.  Programs
    in the system should not suggest installing nonfree plugins,
    documentation, and so on.

    For instance, a free system distribution must not contain browsers
    that implement EME, the browser functionality designed to load DRM
    modules.

https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html

     Regards,
       Mark

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2019-02-22 20:21 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2018-03-20 13:47 wrapping up the Newmoon Browser package ng0
2018-03-23  5:32 ` Chris Marusich
2018-03-23 12:14   ` ng0
2018-03-23 13:30     ` ng0
2018-03-24 10:16       ` Ricardo Wurmus
2018-03-24 17:04         ` ng0
2018-03-23 16:32     ` Chris Marusich
2018-03-23 17:02 ` Mark H Weaver
2018-03-23 17:48   ` ng0
2018-03-23 18:04     ` ng0
2018-03-23 22:04       ` Mark H Weaver
2018-03-23 20:31     ` Mark H Weaver
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-02-22  1:43 swedebugia
2019-02-22 20:19 ` Mark H Weaver

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