From: Brett Gilio <brettg@gnu.org>
To: "Ludovic Courtès" <ludo@gnu.org>
Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, bandali@gnu.org, leo.prikler@student.tugraz.at
Subject: Re: [Proposal] The Formal Methods in GNU Guix Working Group
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 21:06:20 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <871rspqhcj.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sgl5cojg.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Sat, 28 Dec 2019 00:54:43 +0100")
Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
> For the record, I don’t work with the formal methods people at Inria,
> but we chat occasionally, and I’d be happy to draw their attention to
> this effort. :-)
I thought not, but I think this smells of potential for collaboration
maybe amongst a few there. I know some INRIA people from the Caml and
Coq community, so I think if they see a notification both internally and
externally of what is happening with this proposal (after we establish
it a bit more) it has the potential to get some attention.
> That’s sounds very ambitious, though it’s not like people here haven’t
> been ambitious so far. ;-)
It is absolutely an ambitious task, and is definitely a daunting one to
try and make happen. I do have some experience with compiler
construction, but nothing quite to this extent. Amin and I have been
trying to establish connections with other people who might share this
goal, and from what we've received it is _this_ particular task of
making a bootstrapping compiler for ML that seems to be the most
attention-getting. There is definitely a need here, we realized. So, if
we are able to garner enough people to help make this task more
manageable then I say it is in the realm of possibility and will prove
useful for Guix.
> Note that there’s an alternative tradition of theorem provers in Lisp
> with ACL2, “The Little Prover”, etc.
I am familiar :). The Little Prover and the Little Typer are
foundational to my interest here. I have not considered ways to include
them, so food for thought!
> I agree with Julien that a separate IRC channel is unneeded at this
> stage; as for the structure, I would start with a web page explaining
> your areas of interests, similar to the Guix-HPC thing.
>
> To me, an important goal is to create ties with formal methods people,
> and to increase the bandwidth between us. That can beget new ideas and
> perspectives.
>
> Then there are specific areas where we should be discussing: compiler
> bootstrapping (what can OCaml, GHC, SMLNJ, etc. developers do to make
> their compilers bootstrappable?), package management (how to turn OPAM,
> etc. into functional package managers, or how to get language X to use
> Guix instead of rolling its own?), development facilities (‘guix
> environment’, channels like Julien’s Coq channel), and so on.
>
> These things take time and we don’t necessarily have an idea what the
> outcome should be, but it’s definitely worthwhile.
Agreed! 100%. We have a lot of lateral connection making to do, and I
will help foster that any way I can. By the sound of it, Amin has
already been working with some of the Lean prover people on Zulip to see
what is possible for attracting some attention there. I will do my part
on this as well, and once we get an organizational page made for the
working group at whatever address it exists at, I think we will be able
to get some cross-pollination like we need. I definitely want to do this
the "right way".
Thank you Ludo for your help!
--
Brett M. Gilio
GNU Guix, Contributor | GNU Project, Webmaster
[DFC0 C7F7 9EE6 0CA7 AE55 5E19 6722 43C4 A03F 0EEE]
<brettg@gnu.org> <brettg@posteo.net>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-12-28 3:06 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-12-16 0:59 [Proposal] The Formal Methods in GNU Guix Working Group Brett Gilio
2019-12-16 8:47 ` Julien Lepiller
2019-12-16 9:22 ` Julien Lepiller
2019-12-17 3:29 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-27 18:56 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-27 22:33 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-27 23:37 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-28 2:59 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-30 21:34 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-31 10:17 ` Brett Gilio
2020-01-02 22:11 ` Ludovic Courtès
2020-01-03 23:49 ` Amin Bandali
2020-01-15 21:59 ` Ludovic Courtès
2020-01-13 19:27 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2019-12-28 7:20 ` Amin Bandali
2019-12-28 11:28 ` Vicente Eduardo
2019-12-29 8:09 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen
2019-12-17 3:27 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-16 19:46 ` zimoun
2019-12-16 20:10 ` Julien Lepiller
2019-12-17 3:40 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-27 23:56 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-28 2:55 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-17 3:38 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-16 23:04 ` Jack Hill
2019-12-17 1:33 ` John Soo
2019-12-17 3:49 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-17 3:48 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-21 6:48 ` Amin Bandali
2019-12-21 23:59 ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-28 0:02 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-27 23:54 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-28 3:06 ` Brett Gilio [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-01-23 19:17 Alexandru-Sergiu Marton
2020-02-12 12:02 Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)
2020-02-12 14:16 ` zimoun
2020-02-12 14:38 ` Svante Signell
2020-02-12 14:48 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen
2020-02-12 20:59 ` Bengt Richter
2020-02-13 12:13 ` Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)
2020-02-13 12:07 ` Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)
2020-02-15 16:10 ` zimoun
2020-02-18 11:17 ` Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)
2020-02-21 14:47 ` zimoun
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