From: myglc2 <myglc2@gmail.com>
To: Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name>
Cc: Guix-devel <guix-devel@gnu.org>, 29072@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#29072: The usability of Guix configurations
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 21:30:41 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <86h8u6x1ke.fsf__45504.3693459176$1510021874$gmane$org@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171106221621.GA2534@jasmine.lan> (Leo Famulari's message of "Mon, 6 Nov 2017 17:16:21 -0500")
On 11/06/2017 at 17:16 Leo Famulari writes:
> On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 03:12:11PM -0500, myglc2 wrote:
>> My system recently broke when I did an upgrade. I reported what I
>> thought was a bug (bug#29072) but it turned out that, because qemu
>> package code had been moved, my system configuration had become broken
>> ;-(
>>
>> Confronted with my situation, helpful developers said "The package code
>> was moved in commit xxx" (Leo) and "maybe you have a mistake in your
>> config (Efraim)."
>
> I'm sorry that my comment was not enough on its own!
>
>> Once I understood what had happened I wondered, "Gee, I have been using
>> guix for 18 months so why didn't I figure this out myself." ;-)
>>
>> But a less committed user might say, "Wow, Guix breaks at random, error
>> messages are hard to understand, and support is difficult." :-(
>
> Good point.
>
>> ISTM this raises issues and questions about Guix configuration
>> usability:
>
> Indeed.
>
>> Guix config errors are reported as raw scheme errors which are not
>> user-friendly, except, perhaps, to guile users ;-) Could we improve this
>> situation by adding config troubleshooting guidance to the doc?
>
> Yes, we do try to add helpful error messages, although obviously there
> is a lot more work to be done.
[...]
>
>> Guix config errors consume meaningful amounts of user and support
>> effort. I say this because a) it took quite a few iterations to figure
>> out what was wrong in my situation, and b) google search for '"no code
>> for module" guix' finds 613 hits, which will no doubt grow linearly with
>> number of Guix users unless something is done. So I wonder, could an
>> error handler that translates into more user-friendly terms reduce user
>> frustration, increase the rate of user self help, reduce support load,
>> and effectively pay for itself?
>
> That would be awesome!
>
>> Are the current Guix config errors usable by the average GNU/Linux
>> distribution user? If not, don't they need to be improved before we call
>> it 1.0?
>
> Based on how much time it's possible to spend on IRC helping people, I'd
> say there is lots of room for improvement in this area.
>
>> Does this mean that package code must not be moved after 1.0?
>
> A couple thoughts... it would be nice if the GuixSD configuration
> example templates used a filename agnostic method of resolving module
> imports. I'm not a strong enough Schemer to evaluate the situation or
> suggest a solution, but I think that the filenames should not be
> relevant at that level. Perhaps one could use
> 'specification->package+output',
> as demonstrated in the documentation of package manifests:
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Invoking-guix-package.html
>
There is a parallel solution
>> Finally: Should I close bug#29072? ;-)
>
> The problem of the missing QEMU patch is resolved. The broader issue of
> confusing error messages could be continued here, or elsewhere. It's up
> to you :)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-11-07 2:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 51+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-11-06 20:12 The usability of Guix configurations myglc2
2017-11-06 22:16 ` Leo Famulari
2017-11-06 23:26 ` myglc2
2017-11-06 23:26 ` bug#29072: " myglc2
2017-11-07 1:56 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 1:56 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 11:05 ` julien lepiller
2017-11-07 12:52 ` Hartmut Goebel
2017-11-07 13:13 ` julien lepiller
2017-11-07 14:11 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 14:52 ` julien lepiller
2017-11-07 15:59 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 16:25 ` [PATCH] " julien lepiller
[not found] ` <867ev2t13i.fsf@gmail.com>
2017-11-07 21:27 ` Julien Lepiller
2017-11-07 22:56 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 22:47 ` Reporting module errors Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 1:26 ` myglc2
2017-11-08 10:52 ` Hartmut Goebel
2017-11-08 14:02 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 0/6] Error reporting and hints for missing modules Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 1/6] ui: Introduce (guix i18n) Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 2/6] ui: Define and honor '&error-location' and '&fix-hint' conditions Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 3/6] services: 'fold-service-types' honors its seed Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 4/6] services: 'fold-service-types' includes (gnu services) Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 5/6] services: Add 'lookup-service-types' Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 13:09 ` [PATCH 6/6] gnu: Improve error reporting of the use-.*modules macros Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-11 2:02 ` Chris Marusich
2017-11-11 13:56 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-11 17:00 ` Chris Marusich
2017-11-08 15:33 ` [PATCH 0/6] Error reporting and hints for missing modules julien lepiller
2017-11-08 17:42 ` myglc2
2017-11-08 19:07 ` myglc2
2017-11-08 21:42 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-09 23:04 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-10 14:47 ` myglc2
2017-11-10 23:01 ` Julien Lepiller
2017-11-11 22:00 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-11 22:02 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-14 1:12 ` myglc2
2017-11-30 10:44 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-07 14:45 ` The usability of Guix configurations Hartmut Goebel
2017-11-07 2:30 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 3:03 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 2:30 ` myglc2 [this message]
2017-11-07 2:59 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 20:54 ` myglc2
2017-11-06 22:16 ` bug#29072: " Leo Famulari
2017-11-07 10:23 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-11-08 19:40 ` myglc2
2017-11-07 10:23 ` bug#29072: " Ludovic Courtès
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-10-30 20:34 bug#29072: guix system: error: qemu-CVE-2017-7493.patch: patch not found myglc2
2017-11-06 20:12 ` bug#29072: The usability of Guix configurations myglc2
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