Re: Come back and graphical installer

[Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@freenet.de>]

On 19/11/2018 03.10, Mathieu Othacehe wrote:

> The newt API offers one "help-line" at the bottom of the screen for a
> help text. It might be the place to indicate that <Enter> selects.

Some graphical interface dialogs put emphasis on the button that is 
currently bound to Enter, but this convention isn't followed everywhere 
and there are probably many users being unaware. Since long ago I have 
been thinking that actually drawing a enter-key-icon in the button might 
be an improvement. Since we don't have such options here, "Press Enter 
to select and continue" should do.


> You're right, the "initial jump" feature has to be advertised. About the
> "completion-list" it would be great but it requires a patch to newt
> library that is not trivial.

As expected. I always look for ways to improve the user experience, but 
since this would only help some users once in a while, it may not be 
worth your time.


>> Is it possible to detect the BIOS language settings? Any other way to
>> make an informed guess?
> 
> I'm not aware of such a possibility I agree it would be nice.

All a quick search brought up is dmidecode:

$: sudo dmidecode --type 13
# dmidecode 3.1
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 2.5 present.

Handle 0x0030, DMI type 13, 22 bytes
BIOS Language Information
	Language Description Format: Abbreviated
	Installable Languages: 1
		en|US|iso8859-1
	Currently Installed Language: en|US|iso8859-1


dmidecode reads the information provided by the Linux kernel, which 
contains a SMBIOS decoder. I guess most systems are never configured 
away from a default en|US, anyway ...


>> Language names should be localized, e.g. "Deutsch" instead of
>> "German". There may be issues regarding character set and list
>> navigation, though.
> 
> I took the language name from the ISO639 standard where it is not
> localized. However, I see that Wikipedia has an ISO language <-> Native
> name (endonym) correspondance. Maybe we could copy this table somewhere
> and display language endonyms (or both like the Debian installer)?

Looks like the Fedora installer does that, too:
https://www.linuxtechi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/select-installation-fedora-21.jpg

Either installer source might include a hint where the data comes from?


>> "Location selection":
>>
>> A shortlist based on language selection is not acceptable. You just
>> made me relocate to the United Kingdom as nearest choice ;)
> 
> Aha sadly, the glibc only has a small subset of supported locales. If
> you speak Dutch, only those locales are supported:
> 
> nl_AW UTF-8
> nl_BE.UTF-8 UTF-8
> nl_BE ISO-8859-1
> nl_BE@euro ISO-8859-15
> nl_NL.UTF-8 UTF-8
> nl_NL ISO-8859-1
> nl_NL@euro ISO-8859-15
> 
> Which means you can not select a "territory" different from Aruba,
> Belgium or Nederlands. I'm not sure how to overcome this, maybe an
> explicative text, what do you think?

There was a misunderstanding here, of which I think it may happen to 
others, too. I took this in the sense of "where am I", not "which 
locale", though with a bit more thinking, I should have made the 
connection! Presented with anything of the pattern as exemplified in 
"nl_NL.UTF-8 UTF-8", or the keyword "locale", I would have known.

For less informed users, we may want to explain the implications in 
short, but still correct, fashion. Something like "Please Select a 
locale. This is a regional variant of your language, encompassing 
number, date and currency format, among other details.". (I'm not too 
happy about "regional variant".)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locale_(computer_software)

BTW, if the installer doesn't have translations for all languages that 
Guix can be installed with, language selection will have to be split up, 
installer and system.


>> "Timezone selection":

>> It may be better to use one list of timezones, each with the UTC
>> offset, followed by a list of major cities.
> 
> Even though it is harder to implement, it would be better I agree. The
> tricky part is to gather a list of cities representing the timezone.

Best I found is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tz_database_time_zones
Though I wouldn't know how to "fold" that list.

Here's how it's done for tzdata, with pretty good language:
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/additional-recommended-steps-for-new-ubuntu-14-04-servers#configure-timezones-and-network-time-protocol-synchronization


> Thanks again for your suggestions, it is really appreciated!

I'm happy to help!


-- 
Thorsten Wilms

thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/