Can someone explain to me what happened?

Can someone explain to me what happened?

[Jone]

Previously it was an adequate alternative of non-systemd distributions. But
now.. I'm shocked!
Minimal config -> XFCE -> wait what.. GDM? WTF? I'm not say anything about
NM as default..

I have long wanted to say this: return the normal default settings!!

Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[brettg]

On 29.12.2019 12:54, Jone wrote:
> Previously it was an adequate alternative of non-systemd distributions. 
> But
> now.. I'm shocked!
> Minimal config -> XFCE -> wait what.. GDM? WTF? I'm not say anything 
> about
> NM as default..
> 
> I have long wanted to say this: return the normal default settings!!

Jone,

Thank you for your message. I apologize that you are experiencing 
dissatisfaction with Guix System. I read your message, and I am trying 
to comprehend what exactly you are frustrated with. Your description 
seems to me to be quite vague and does not detail a specific series of 
issues. I would like to be able to help you, so if you could respond to 
this message (or open a bug report, if need be) detailing what the 
expected behavior you are seeking is, versus the resultant behavior that 
would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Brett Gilio

Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[brettg]

On 29.12.2019 13:32, Jone wrote:
> I am already a former user of this distribution. Excuse me but about
> half a year ago I tried installing this with the current configuration
> on another machine. Hah! Slim? No, GDM! XFCE -> Slim - it should be
> so!
> 
> I’m just sad that such a distribution has fallen into disrepair :(

I am not aware that having GDM being the default entails the 
distribution to be in a state of "disrepair". The terminology you have 
chosen indicates that this is either a behavior that can not be modified 
or replaced. Both of which are possible. You are free to replace GDM 
with SLIM, as I have done so by simply adding SLIM to your services. 
This will replace GDM, easily.

You may not like the default behavior of GDM being the "default". But 
this is a reasonable default none the less and is easy to switch as you 
see fit using our declarative configuration system.

If you need help in achieving this, do not hesitate to ask. I am here to 
help. It also seems you replied to me off the list, so I am cc'ing the 
list back into the conversation.

Thanks,
Brett Gilio

Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

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Jone,

Thanks for your feedback, although like Brett I'm just confused.

Guix has never been an anti-systemd distribution.  If it's been 
sold to you as such I wish it hadn't.

Neither of the programmes you mention have anything to do with 
systemd.  Neither of them depend on it.  Neither of them are 
forced upon the user.  What's your real objection?  What makes GDM 
incompatible with XFCE?

Jone 写道：
> Minimal config -> XFCE -> wait what.. GDM? WTF?

;; DM?  What's that?
(service slim-service-type
         (slim-configuration
           (auto-login? #t)
           (default-user "nckx")
           (vt "vt1")
           (xorg-configuration
             …

> I'm not say anything about NM as default..

(service connman-service-type
         (connman-configuration
           …

…or whatever you prefer.  I do use NetworkManager myself so I'm 
not very familiar with the alternatives.  Connman is used by the 
installer image.

I've never used GDM but it apparently depends on NetworkManager 
for some reason.  If so it makes obvious sense to use NM later on 
as well.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[brettg]

On 29.12.2019 13:49, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote:
> Jone,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback, although like Brett I'm just confused.
> 
> Guix has never been an anti-systemd distribution.  If it's been sold
> to you as such I wish it hadn't.
> 
> Neither of the programmes you mention have anything to do with
> systemd.  Neither of them depend on it.  Neither of them are forced
> upon the user.  What's your real objection?  What makes GDM
> incompatible with XFCE?
> 
> Jone 写道：
>> Minimal config -> XFCE -> wait what.. GDM? WTF?
> 
> ;; DM?  What's that?
> (service slim-service-type
>         (slim-configuration
>           (auto-login? #t)
>           (default-user "nckx")
>           (vt "vt1")
>           (xorg-configuration
>             …
> 
>> I'm not say anything about NM as default..
> 
> (service connman-service-type
>         (connman-configuration
>           …
> 
> …or whatever you prefer.  I do use NetworkManager myself so I'm not
> very familiar with the alternatives.  Connman is used by the installer
> image.
> 
> I've never used GDM but it apparently depends on NetworkManager for
> some reason.  If so it makes obvious sense to use NM later on as well.
> 
> Kind regards,

I am in agreement with Tobias' assessment of the situation here. This 
issue needs more information. It feels more like a misunderstood 
grievance rather than an issue with Guix itself. Please correct me if I 
am wrong.

Thanks,
Brett Gilio
> 
> T G-R

Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

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Jone, Brett,

brettg@posteo.net 写道：
> On 29.12.2019 13:32, Jone wrote:
>> I am already a former user of this distribution. Excuse me but 
>> about
>> half a year ago I tried installing this with the current 
>> configuration
>> on another machine. Hah! Slim? No, GDM! XFCE -> Slim - it 
>> should be
>> so!

Slim was unmaintained and buggy, so GDM was chosen as better 
default.  The discussion was public.

>> I’m just sad that such a distribution has fallen into disrepair 
>> :(

Hyperbolic untruths like this gets us nowhere.

Replacing unmaintained software with maintained alternatives is 
the sign of a healthy distribution.  We'd also gladly accept a 
patch adding your favourite DM to Guix!

Meanwhile, I've (duh) realised that the 'wares you object to 
simply share a common author.  I'm sorry, but ‘I don't like Red 
Hat!’ is not an argument to anyone but yourself.

I'm not a fan-boy myself.  I dislike systemd upstream, GNOME 
everything, and the only thing keeping NM installed here is 
inertia: so many saved networks.  I'm genuinely interested in any 
real issues you encounter with these packages — but that just 
ain't one.

> If you need help in achieving this, do not hesitate to ask. I am 
> here
> to help. It also seems you replied to me off the list, so I am 
> cc'ing
> the list back into the conversation.

Thanks!  I concur.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[Jone]

Yes, I understand these snippets. But we are talking exclusively about the
minimal configuration and default settings.
You can of course rewrite everything at all, the system allows - but! I'm a
user, not a Lisp programmer. Moreover, just a worker in production.

Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[Brett Gilio]

Dec 29, 2019 7:56:01 AM Jone :

> Yes, I understand these snippets. But we are talking exclusively about the
> minimal configuration and default settings.
> You can of course rewrite everything at all, the system allows - but! I'm a
> user, not a Lisp programmer. Moreover, just a worker in production.
>

Hi Jone,

As Tobias said, your opposition to GDM being the default in the minimal configuration seems to be based on a personal distaste for the common author of GDM and systemd. the choice of Slim being phased out as the default is due to the nature of Slim being unmaintained. You are welcome to open a bug report requesting GDM be replaced with something else, but I doubt it would get anywhere. Your refusal to configure your system how you want it to be on the premise that you are not a LISPer is not something we can help unless you ask for that help.

On that note, we should either await a bug report from you and end the discussion on the matter of this thread here.

Best of luck.

-- 
Brett M. Gilio
GNU Guix, Contributor | GNU Project, Webmaster
[DFC0 C7F7 9EE6 0CA7 AE55 5E19 6722 43C4 A03F 0EEE]
< brettg@gnu.org [mailto:brettg@gnu.org] > < brettg@posteo.net [mailto:brettg@posteo.net] >

Re: Can someone explain to me what happened?

[Jone]

I understood you. It seems. The fact is that I could not  login my old
configuration on another machine.
What of dependencies of GDM? Maybe will be added some more garbage? I don't
need it, it can be fixed, but it turns out that the system is unfriendly.