Add xmpp room to the list of group chats.

Add xmpp room to the list of group chats.

[MSavoritias]

Hey, I thought this mailing list is the most fitting for the request 
feel free to point out if its better somewhere else.


Is the community open to have group chats listed in other networks than 
IRC assuming they are free software?

Having chat groups in different networks is going to greatly improve the 
accessibility of the project towards new contributors which I think we 
recently wanted to start working on as one of our areas of focus.

The group chat I am talking about is in xmpp/jabber and it is here -> 
guix@chat.disroot.org

It has already the CoC of the guix project and xmpp is free software 
from server to client.


Also disclaimer: I am not talking about starting to bridge them. That is 
an entirely separate thing with different tradeoffs and maintenance.

Just listing the group chat is easy though :)


Msavoritias

Re: Add xmpp room to the list of group chats.

[Ada Stevenson]

Hi,

On 12/2/23 8:20 AM, MSavoritias wrote:
> Hey, I thought this mailing list is the most fitting for the request 
> feel free to point out if its better somewhere else.
>
>
> Is the community open to have group chats listed in other networks 
> than IRC assuming they are free software?
>
> Having chat groups in different networks is going to greatly improve 
> the accessibility of the project towards new contributors which I 
> think we recently wanted to start working on as one of our areas of 
> focus.
>
> The group chat I am talking about is in xmpp/jabber and it is here -> 
> guix@chat.disroot.org
>
> It has already the CoC of the guix project and xmpp is free software 
> from server to client.
>
>
> Also disclaimer: I am not talking about starting to bridge them. That 
> is an entirely separate thing with different tradeoffs and maintenance.
>
> Just listing the group chat is easy though :)
>
>
> Msavoritias
>
>
This sounds like a good idea to me! XMPP just works a lot nicer with 
stuff like attachments and message logging without needing peripheral 
tooling like znc to get around things like message logging/persistance. 
Whether we go with disroot.org to host the chat, or whether GNU can host 
something for us in the future I'm not sure, but I'm keen to see more 
usage of XMPP.

I think the channel should be listed once we have a strong consensus 
that we want to use XMPP as a main communication channel. Perhaps this 
is suitable for a RFI?

However, I understand the desire to keep everything as central as 
possible, especially when it comes to communication. IRC works well 
enough in most cases, and by far has the most active users. This doesn't 
mean things can improve, though, and the niceties provided by a more 
modern protocol such as XMPP could be worth it, potentially. Anyway, 
there isn't much harm in maintaining our own XMPP channel for those who 
wish to use it.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Ada (adanska)

Re: Add xmpp room to the list of group chats.

[MSavoritias]

On 12/7/23 09:42, Ada Stevenson wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 12/2/23 8:20 AM, MSavoritias wrote:
>> Hey, I thought this mailing list is the most fitting for the request 
>> feel free to point out if its better somewhere else.
>>
>>
>> Is the community open to have group chats listed in other networks 
>> than IRC assuming they are free software?
>>
>> Having chat groups in different networks is going to greatly improve 
>> the accessibility of the project towards new contributors which I 
>> think we recently wanted to start working on as one of our areas of 
>> focus.
>>
>> The group chat I am talking about is in xmpp/jabber and it is here -> 
>> guix@chat.disroot.org
>>
>> It has already the CoC of the guix project and xmpp is free software 
>> from server to client.
>>
>>
>> Also disclaimer: I am not talking about starting to bridge them. That 
>> is an entirely separate thing with different tradeoffs and maintenance.
>>
>> Just listing the group chat is easy though :)
>>
>>
>> Msavoritias
>>
>>
> This sounds like a good idea to me! XMPP just works a lot nicer with 
> stuff like attachments and message logging without needing peripheral 
> tooling like znc to get around things like message 
> logging/persistance. Whether we go with disroot.org to host the chat, 
> or whether GNU can host something for us in the future I'm not sure, 
> but I'm keen to see more usage of XMPP.
>
> I think the channel should be listed once we have a strong consensus 
> that we want to use XMPP as a main communication channel. Perhaps this 
> is suitable for a RFI?
>
Why main communication channel? I mean sure we can have a discussion 
regarding that, but I think that brings far more questions than just 
listing the xmpp channel as an alternative.

Plus we don't even know how desirable it would be for it to be the main 
channel? (Although a lot of people have started to appear in the channel 
which is nice ^^)

The model I was looking at was similar to ->

General-purpose programming language and toolchain for maintaining 
robust, optimal, and reusable software. - ziglang/zig

github.com

Community <#>

General-purpose programming language and toolchain for maintaining 
robust, optimal, and reusable software. - Community · ziglang/zig Wiki

🔗 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/wiki/Community 
<https://github.com/ziglang/zig/wiki/Community>

> However, I understand the desire to keep everything as central as 
> possible, especially when it comes to communication. IRC works well 
> enough in most cases, and by far has the most active users. This 
> doesn't mean things can improve, though, and the niceties provided by 
> a more modern protocol such as XMPP could be worth it, potentially. 
> Anyway, there isn't much harm in maintaining our own XMPP channel for 
> those who wish to use it.
>
What is being proposed here? hosting our own xmpp server or promoting 
this as an "official" channel? whatever that means.


MSavoritias

> What do you think?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ada (adanska)
>

Re: Add xmpp room to the list of group chats.

[Ada Stevenson]

Hi,

On 12/7/23 11:25 AM, MSavoritias wrote:
> On 12/7/23 09:42, Ada Stevenson wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 12/2/23 8:20 AM, MSavoritias wrote:
>>> Hey, I thought this mailing list is the most fitting for the request 
>>> feel free to point out if its better somewhere else.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the community open to have group chats listed in other networks 
>>> than IRC assuming they are free software?
>>>
>>> Having chat groups in different networks is going to greatly improve 
>>> the accessibility of the project towards new contributors which I 
>>> think we recently wanted to start working on as one of our areas of 
>>> focus.
>>>
>>> The group chat I am talking about is in xmpp/jabber and it is here 
>>> -> guix@chat.disroot.org
>>>
>>> It has already the CoC of the guix project and xmpp is free software 
>>> from server to client.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also disclaimer: I am not talking about starting to bridge them. 
>>> That is an entirely separate thing with different tradeoffs and 
>>> maintenance.
>>>
>>> Just listing the group chat is easy though :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Msavoritias
>>>
>>>
>> This sounds like a good idea to me! XMPP just works a lot nicer with 
>> stuff like attachments and message logging without needing peripheral 
>> tooling like znc to get around things like message 
>> logging/persistance. Whether we go with disroot.org to host the chat, 
>> or whether GNU can host something for us in the future I'm not sure, 
>> but I'm keen to see more usage of XMPP.
>>
>> I think the channel should be listed once we have a strong consensus 
>> that we want to use XMPP as a main communication channel. Perhaps 
>> this is suitable for a RFI?
>>
> Why main communication channel? I mean sure we can have a discussion 
> regarding that, but I think that brings far more questions than just 
> listing the xmpp channel as an alternative.
>
> Plus we don't even know how desirable it would be for it to be the 
> main channel? (Although a lot of people have started to appear in the 
> channel which is nice ^^)
Sorry, I got a bit overzealous, haha! You're right, I don't think its 
useful to be talking about changing the 'main' channel as it were. IRC 
is mature and is working well at the moment, and is integrated with a 
lot of people's workflows already (ERC for emacs, for example).
>
> The model I was looking at was similar to ->
>
> General-purpose programming language and toolchain for maintaining 
> robust, optimal, and reusable software. - ziglang/zig
>
> github.com
>
> Community <#>
>
> General-purpose programming language and toolchain for maintaining 
> robust, optimal, and reusable software. - Community · ziglang/zig Wiki
>
> 🔗 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/wiki/Community 
> <https://github.com/ziglang/zig/wiki/Community>

I see. In my opinion I'm not the biggest fan of having all of these 
disjoint spaces for a community the size of Guix (that is, relatively 
small). There are a lot of merits at this stage to keeping communication 
centralised so everyone can be seen and heard. Of course, as the project 
matures and more people come to use it, it is natural that more channels 
on different platforms will pop up; this works when there are many 
people working on a project and traffic gets too heavy and needs from a 
platform diversify.

As it stands now, I think having IRC, XMPP and the mailing list as 
communication platforms serve to cover the needs of most people, whilst 
still keeping things central.

>
>> However, I understand the desire to keep everything as central as 
>> possible, especially when it comes to communication. IRC works well 
>> enough in most cases, and by far has the most active users. This 
>> doesn't mean things can improve, though, and the niceties provided by 
>> a more modern protocol such as XMPP could be worth it, potentially. 
>> Anyway, there isn't much harm in maintaining our own XMPP channel for 
>> those who wish to use it.
>>
> What is being proposed here? hosting our own xmpp server or promoting 
> this as an "official" channel? whatever that means.
>
I am proposing hosting our own server as well as putting the XMPP 
channel on the Guix homepage, promoting it as a means to get in touch 
with the community in the same way IRC and the mailing list are.

The current disadvantage with hosting on disroot.org is the 30 day 
message and file storage limitation[1]. One of the great things about 
the IRC chat is the online, searchable log[2] that goes all the way back 
to 2013. The benefits of having conversations saved like this speaks for 
itself. If there is a way to replicate this with XMPP and bypass this 30 
day limitation this would make XMPP far more viable as a communication 
channel.


>
> MSavoritias
>
Thanks,

Ada (adanksa)

[1] https://disroot.org/en/services/xmpp

[2] https://logs.guix.gnu.org

>> What do you think?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ada (adanska)
>>