From: Christopher Lemmer Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org>
To: Katherine Cox-Buday <cox.katherine.e@gmail.com>
Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: What is the philosophy behind shepherd?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 19:08:55 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87a7h2buk8.fsf@dustycloud.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87o95jlyo0.fsf@gmail.com>
Katherine Cox-Buday writes:
> I must preface this email with the assurance that there is no agenda
> behind my questions; only ignorance and curiosity. Please read it with
> that in mind!
>
> A couple weeks ago, I was watching a video called "The Tragedy of
> Systemd"[1]. In it, Benno Rice discusses the need for a so-called
> "system layer" which is responding to the many complicated signals
> coming into a system from thing happening (e.g. networks becoming
> available/unavailable, VPNs mucking with DNS and routing tables, etc.).
> He characterizes systemd and things like it as something that lives
> between kernel-space and user-space.
>
> It really opened my eyes to why something like systemd exists rather
> than sticking with the old-style init systems.
>
> Does Shepherd take the stance that it is, or is to become a "system
> layer"?
>
> If so, one of the criticisms he has for systemd is that instead of
> pulling in protocols for things (e.g. DNS), and allowing best-of-breed
> software to handle the implementation, it has pulled in the
> responsibility for implementation as well. Any thoughts on that?
>
> [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
I think one interesting thing, to me, is that I agree that this is
desirable, but I think a microkernel + services approach would be much
better architecture. In such a world then shepherd's role would be to
bootstrap the key services needed to talk to each other.
In other words, I think systemd exists in many ways to make up for the
limitations of a monolithic kernel approach. In that way, it makes
sense, but I think we could do better with a different fundamental
infrastructure.
But maybe I am wrong!
- Chris
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-04-06 23:09 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 9+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-04-06 19:30 What is the philosophy behind shepherd? Katherine Cox-Buday
2019-04-06 21:02 ` znavko
2019-04-06 21:21 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2019-04-07 8:08 ` znavko
2019-04-06 23:08 ` Christopher Lemmer Webber [this message]
2019-04-07 13:35 ` Pjotr Prins
2019-04-07 17:52 ` Adam Pribyl
2019-04-08 9:25 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-04-11 1:21 ` Danny Milosavljevic
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://guix.gnu.org/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=87a7h2buk8.fsf@dustycloud.org \
--to=cwebber@dustycloud.org \
--cc=cox.katherine.e@gmail.com \
--cc=guix-devel@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).