Manual (was: fully functional desktop installation)

Manual (was: fully functional desktop installation)

[ng0]

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Ludovic Courtès transcribed 1.7K bytes:
> Hi Quiliro!
> 
> Quiliro <quiliro@riseup.net> skribis:
> 
> > On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 22:11:01 +0100
> > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> The desktop example contains all of GNOME, when choosing GNOME, which
> >> provides an email client, Web browser, and lots of other things.
> >
> > I don't find the email client.
> > The web browser will not reproduce videos.
> 
> This is a bug that needs to be treated separately.  Clearly Nautilus
> should be able to play videos.

I can confirm this for some file, I just had the opinion Nautilus wasn't
very capable and didn't report it when I first noticed it.

> > I have no idea how to chat in Gnome. (Of course I will investigate.)
> 
> There’s Pidgin, but maybe it’s not really part of GNOME.
> 
> > What you say makes sense. But what users that cannot learn to install
> > need to work on their own matters is very important in order for them to
> > be able to advocate the free system. Perhaps we do not want to promote
> > the use of Flash or Microsoft Office formats. These issues are
> > critical. But they are not against the FSDGs. And the user must notice
> > we are able to offer those capabilities. We must always insist in
> > suggesting to use the libre alternatives. In this case, we should not
> > avoid including the ability to read those formats.
> 
> I agree, but again, I think GNOME provides everything for these tasks.
> Also, at this point, the target audience of GuixSD is not “users that
> cannot learn to install”—if someone managed to install GuixSD, surely
> they’ll find out how to install LibreOffice.

In my opinion we could extend examples in the Manual.
We already expect people to read the Manual, even if it's hard to
digest for newcomers in some passages (different problem). To add
an 'from 0 to full Desktop' walk through or just extension of the existing
material with references to the appropriate sections would be good.

Even if we don't expect people who are not willing to play around, break parts
and play around with the system, we need clear examples. Even people who are
experienced want some kind of help instead of high expertise expectation.

People keep asking me obvious question that should be in the manual.
Sometimes things which could be snippets in an example chapter.
For example (home-directory (string-append "/home/" name)). Super obvious,
I know.

> > I have also had problems with Mimetypes. Many files will not open
> > because the Gnome will not identify which program is appropriate.
> 
> Sounds like a bug.  Could you report all the details to
> bug-guix@gnu.org: how to reproduce, what you expected, and what you got?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Ludo’.
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
ng0 :: https://ea.n0.is
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Re: Manual (was: fully functional desktop installation)

[Amirouche Boubekki]

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Does the manual want to avoid the fact that minimal knowledge of Scheme is
required maybe we should add a small intro to guile or guix manual
something maybe like my book called "a guile mind book"

Le 15 janv. 2018 3:20 PM, "ng0" <ng0@n0.is> a écrit :

> Ludovic Courtès transcribed 1.7K bytes:
> > Hi Quiliro!
> >
> > Quiliro <quiliro@riseup.net> skribis:
> >
> > > On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 22:11:01 +0100
> > > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >> The desktop example contains all of GNOME, when choosing GNOME, which
> > >> provides an email client, Web browser, and lots of other things.
> > >
> > > I don't find the email client.
> > > The web browser will not reproduce videos.
> >
> > This is a bug that needs to be treated separately.  Clearly Nautilus
> > should be able to play videos.
>
> I can confirm this for some file, I just had the opinion Nautilus wasn't
> very capable and didn't report it when I first noticed it.
>
> > > I have no idea how to chat in Gnome. (Of course I will investigate.)
> >
> > There’s Pidgin, but maybe it’s not really part of GNOME.
> >
> > > What you say makes sense. But what users that cannot learn to install
> > > need to work on their own matters is very important in order for them
> to
> > > be able to advocate the free system. Perhaps we do not want to promote
> > > the use of Flash or Microsoft Office formats. These issues are
> > > critical. But they are not against the FSDGs. And the user must notice
> > > we are able to offer those capabilities. We must always insist in
> > > suggesting to use the libre alternatives. In this case, we should not
> > > avoid including the ability to read those formats.
> >
> > I agree, but again, I think GNOME provides everything for these tasks.
> > Also, at this point, the target audience of GuixSD is not “users that
> > cannot learn to install”—if someone managed to install GuixSD, surely
> > they’ll find out how to install LibreOffice.
>
> In my opinion we could extend examples in the Manual.
> We already expect people to read the Manual, even if it's hard to
> digest for newcomers in some passages (different problem). To add
> an 'from 0 to full Desktop' walk through or just extension of the existing
> material with references to the appropriate sections would be good.
>
> Even if we don't expect people who are not willing to play around, break
> parts
> and play around with the system, we need clear examples. Even people who
> are
> experienced want some kind of help instead of high expertise expectation.
>
> People keep asking me obvious question that should be in the manual.
> Sometimes things which could be snippets in an example chapter.
> For example (home-directory (string-append "/home/" name)). Super obvious,
> I know.
>
> > > I have also had problems with Mimetypes. Many files will not open
> > > because the Gnome will not identify which program is appropriate.
> >
> > Sounds like a bug.  Could you report all the details to
> > bug-guix@gnu.org: how to reproduce, what you expected, and what you got?
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Ludo’.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ng0 :: https://ea.n0.is
> A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 :: https://ea.n0.is/keys/
>

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Re: Manual (was: fully functional desktop installation)

[ng0]

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Amirouche Boubekki transcribed 7.7K bytes:
> Does the manual want to avoid the fact that minimal knowledge of Scheme is
> required maybe we should add a small intro to guile or guix manual
> something maybe like my book called "a guile mind book"

So far the Guix Manual tried to just provide cross reference links where
possible. We've had enough bugs (in other words: questions, misunderstandings,..)
about the Manual to assume that we need something like that.
The Manual is good, but we are far from free of criticism.

So, yes, in my opinion we need this. And more like this, I have the growing
need to start a rewrite proposal branch.. But this has to wait until I can
spend time on it.

> Le 15 janv. 2018 3:20 PM, "ng0" <ng0@n0.is> a écrit :
> 
> > Ludovic Courtès transcribed 1.7K bytes:
> > > Hi Quiliro!
> > >
> > > Quiliro <quiliro@riseup.net> skribis:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 22:11:01 +0100
> > > > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > >> The desktop example contains all of GNOME, when choosing GNOME, which
> > > >> provides an email client, Web browser, and lots of other things.
> > > >
> > > > I don't find the email client.
> > > > The web browser will not reproduce videos.
> > >
> > > This is a bug that needs to be treated separately.  Clearly Nautilus
> > > should be able to play videos.
> >
> > I can confirm this for some file, I just had the opinion Nautilus wasn't
> > very capable and didn't report it when I first noticed it.
> >
> > > > I have no idea how to chat in Gnome. (Of course I will investigate.)
> > >
> > > There’s Pidgin, but maybe it’s not really part of GNOME.
> > >
> > > > What you say makes sense. But what users that cannot learn to install
> > > > need to work on their own matters is very important in order for them
> > to
> > > > be able to advocate the free system. Perhaps we do not want to promote
> > > > the use of Flash or Microsoft Office formats. These issues are
> > > > critical. But they are not against the FSDGs. And the user must notice
> > > > we are able to offer those capabilities. We must always insist in
> > > > suggesting to use the libre alternatives. In this case, we should not
> > > > avoid including the ability to read those formats.
> > >
> > > I agree, but again, I think GNOME provides everything for these tasks.
> > > Also, at this point, the target audience of GuixSD is not “users that
> > > cannot learn to install”—if someone managed to install GuixSD, surely
> > > they’ll find out how to install LibreOffice.
> >
> > In my opinion we could extend examples in the Manual.
> > We already expect people to read the Manual, even if it's hard to
> > digest for newcomers in some passages (different problem). To add
> > an 'from 0 to full Desktop' walk through or just extension of the existing
> > material with references to the appropriate sections would be good.
> >
> > Even if we don't expect people who are not willing to play around, break
> > parts
> > and play around with the system, we need clear examples. Even people who
> > are
> > experienced want some kind of help instead of high expertise expectation.
> >
> > People keep asking me obvious question that should be in the manual.
> > Sometimes things which could be snippets in an example chapter.
> > For example (home-directory (string-append "/home/" name)). Super obvious,
> > I know.
> >
> > > > I have also had problems with Mimetypes. Many files will not open
> > > > because the Gnome will not identify which program is appropriate.
> > >
> > > Sounds like a bug.  Could you report all the details to
> > > bug-guix@gnu.org: how to reproduce, what you expected, and what you got?
> > >
> > > Thank you!
> > >
> > > Ludo’.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ng0 :: https://ea.n0.is
> > A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 :: https://ea.n0.is/keys/
> >

-- 
ng0 :: https://ea.n0.is
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 :: https://ea.n0.is/keys/

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