question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

[ng0]

ng0 <ngillmann@runbox.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> "Patricia J. Hawkins" <phawkins@connact.com> writes:
>
>> I'm just getting started setting up to use notmuch (your message
>> attracted my attention to it!) but looks like the afew script is
>> designed to do this, as a companion processer ("initial tagging") for
>> notmuch.
>>
>> https://github.com/teythoon/afew
>
> I actually have that as a work in progress package, but I can no longer
> work on it.. if I really do have it, there might be further dependencies
> which are needed or a massive amount of tests which need to be patched.
> Are you interested in taking this over?

I just checked out the repository and branch I had on this, I was
failing at the test suite of dbacl which is used by afew as a
dependency.
Fixing it after not looking at it for half a year is easy. It will be
even easier when this qestion can be solved:

all sample texts have declared licenses, I delete "sample6.txt" (license
unknown, forwarded email) and "japanese.txt" (unofficial translation of
GPL). For japanese.txt I'm not sure which copyright form applies.. same
for this unclear document sample6, deleting was just to be on the safe
side.

Let me quote myself:

509    ;; The software is licensed as GPLv3 or later, but                     
510    ;; includes various sample texts in the doc dir:                       
511    ;; - sample1.txt, sample3 and sampe5.txt are in the public domain,     
512    ;;   by Mark Twain.                                                    
513    ;; - sample2.txt, sample4.txt are in the public domain, by Aristotle.  
514    ;; - sample6.txt is a forwarded email, copyright unknown.              
515    ;;   Guix does exclude sample6.txt.                                    
516    ;; - japanese.txt is a Japanese unoffical translation of the           
517    ;;   GNU General Public License, (c) by the Free Software Foundation.  
518    ;;   XXX: uncertain of license to apply. Left out for now.             
519    (license '(license:gpl-3 license:public-domain))))  
-- 

Re: question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

[John Darrington]

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The GPL itself is not Free (!)

It's license is: 

 "Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
  of this license document, but changing it is not allowed."

PLUS some extra permissions regarding translation which are 
given at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/translations.html

Note that these extra permissions come with a number of conditions,
including:

 "The translation is not hosted on a commercial site."

So this means that if the package includes japanse.txt nobody can
make a commercial version of our hydra repository.  I think this
would be a restriction which we don't want to impose.  Hence, I 
thing the decision to remove japanese.txt is correct.

J'



On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 09:21:41AM +0000, ng0 wrote:
     ng0 <ngillmann@runbox.com> writes:
     
     > Hi,
     >
     > "Patricia J. Hawkins" <phawkins@connact.com> writes:
     >
     >> I'm just getting started setting up to use notmuch (your message
     >> attracted my attention to it!) but looks like the afew script is
     >> designed to do this, as a companion processer ("initial tagging") for
     >> notmuch.
     >>
     >> https://github.com/teythoon/afew
     >
     > I actually have that as a work in progress package, but I can no longer
     > work on it.. if I really do have it, there might be further dependencies
     > which are needed or a massive amount of tests which need to be patched.
     > Are you interested in taking this over?
     
     I just checked out the repository and branch I had on this, I was
     failing at the test suite of dbacl which is used by afew as a
     dependency.
     Fixing it after not looking at it for half a year is easy. It will be
     even easier when this qestion can be solved:
     
     all sample texts have declared licenses, I delete "sample6.txt" (license
     unknown, forwarded email) and "japanese.txt" (unofficial translation of
     GPL). For japanese.txt I'm not sure which copyright form applies.. same
     for this unclear document sample6, deleting was just to be on the safe
     side.
     
     Let me quote myself:
     
     509    ;; The software is licensed as GPLv3 or later, but                     
     510    ;; includes various sample texts in the doc dir:                       
     511    ;; - sample1.txt, sample3 and sampe5.txt are in the public domain,     
     512    ;;   by Mark Twain.                                                    
     513    ;; - sample2.txt, sample4.txt are in the public domain, by Aristotle.  
     514    ;; - sample6.txt is a forwarded email, copyright unknown.              
     515    ;;   Guix does exclude sample6.txt.                                    
     516    ;; - japanese.txt is a Japanese unoffical translation of the           
     517    ;;   GNU General Public License, (c) by the Free Software Foundation.  
     518    ;;   XXX: uncertain of license to apply. Left out for now.             
     519    (license '(license:gpl-3 license:public-domain))))  
     -- 

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Re: question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

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If I'm not mistaken, translations of the GNU GPL are not legally binding
if they are presented by themselves.

One must note that when the translation text is preceded by a section
written in the license's original language that instructs the reader to
take the original one as valid, then the project does become under that
license.

Distinction must also be made between the license and its notice below
copyright notice. As far as my limited knowledge goes, the license
notice of the GNU GPL can be translated.

However, translating license notices for other licenses that don't
implement short notices is risky because you would be translating the
license itself.

Examples of licenses that allow short license notices: Almost all
licenses from the GNU project, Apache License.

After the license notice, of course, the project can take the time and
space to write more elaborated text on what are the rights and
obligations of the user, as long as the writer warns that this
explanation isn't legally binding too, and that the reader must read the
original license to know more.

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Re: question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

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I **guess** that restriction on modifying the GPL was made because of
the problem of license proliferation that could arise from translations
not accepted as such (that is: not accepted as translations).

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Re: question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

[ng0]

Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno@openmailbox.org> writes:

> [ Unknown signature status ]
> If I'm not mistaken, translations of the GNU GPL are not legally binding
> if they are presented by themselves.
>
> One must note that when the translation text is preceded by a section
> written in the license's original language that instructs the reader to
> take the original one as valid, then the project does become under that
> license.
>
> Distinction must also be made between the license and its notice below
> copyright notice. As far as my limited knowledge goes, the license
> notice of the GNU GPL can be translated.
>
> However, translating license notices for other licenses that don't
> implement short notices is risky because you would be translating the
> license itself.
>
> Examples of licenses that allow short license notices: Almost all
> licenses from the GNU project, Apache License.
>
> After the license notice, of course, the project can take the time and
> space to write more elaborated text on what are the rights and
> obligations of the user, as long as the writer warns that this
> explanation isn't legally binding too, and that the reader must read the
> original license to know more.

Does this even apply when the license serves as a sample text?
The source we are talking about:
http://dbacl.sourceforge.net/ | https://github.com/krig/dbacl
https://github.com/krig/dbacl/blob/master/doc/japanese.txt (might not
represent what I have in the tarball)
and sample6 I deleted is this one:
https://github.com/krig/dbacl/blob/master/doc/sample6.txt
-- 

Re: question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

[ng0]

John Darrington <john@darrington.wattle.id.au> writes:

> [ Unknown signature status ]
> The GPL itself is not Free (!)
>
> It's license is: 
>
>  "Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
>   of this license document, but changing it is not allowed."
>
> PLUS some extra permissions regarding translation which are 
> given at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/translations.html
>
> Note that these extra permissions come with a number of conditions,
> including:
>
>  "The translation is not hosted on a commercial site."
>
> So this means that if the package includes japanse.txt nobody can
> make a commercial version of our hydra repository.  I think this
> would be a restriction which we don't want to impose.  Hence, I 
> thing the decision to remove japanese.txt is correct.

Okay, I agree with this.
I don#t know how much is expected (from the test suite), but couldn't we
just delete the content and replace it with

# original sample text removed by Guix due to legal problems
こんにちは世界

or something like that, hopefully double checked by someone who actually
knows the language - for me it's been a 'todo' for years now :/

That would still enable the test to parse some text.

> J'
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 09:21:41AM +0000, ng0 wrote:
>      ng0 <ngillmann@runbox.com> writes:
>      
>      > Hi,
>      >
>      > "Patricia J. Hawkins" <phawkins@connact.com> writes:
>      >
>      >> I'm just getting started setting up to use notmuch (your message
>      >> attracted my attention to it!) but looks like the afew script is
>      >> designed to do this, as a companion processer ("initial tagging") for
>      >> notmuch.
>      >>
>      >> https://github.com/teythoon/afew
>      >
>      > I actually have that as a work in progress package, but I can no longer
>      > work on it.. if I really do have it, there might be further dependencies
>      > which are needed or a massive amount of tests which need to be patched.
>      > Are you interested in taking this over?
>      
>      I just checked out the repository and branch I had on this, I was
>      failing at the test suite of dbacl which is used by afew as a
>      dependency.
>      Fixing it after not looking at it for half a year is easy. It will be
>      even easier when this qestion can be solved:
>      
>      all sample texts have declared licenses, I delete "sample6.txt" (license
>      unknown, forwarded email) and "japanese.txt" (unofficial translation of
>      GPL). For japanese.txt I'm not sure which copyright form applies.. same
>      for this unclear document sample6, deleting was just to be on the safe
>      side.
>      
>      Let me quote myself:
>      
>      509    ;; The software is licensed as GPLv3 or later, but                     
>      510    ;; includes various sample texts in the doc dir:                       
>      511    ;; - sample1.txt, sample3 and sampe5.txt are in the public domain,     
>      512    ;;   by Mark Twain.                                                    
>      513    ;; - sample2.txt, sample4.txt are in the public domain, by Aristotle.  
>      514    ;; - sample6.txt is a forwarded email, copyright unknown.              
>      515    ;;   Guix does exclude sample6.txt.                                    
>      516    ;; - japanese.txt is a Japanese unoffical translation of the           
>      517    ;;   GNU General Public License, (c) by the Free Software Foundation.  
>      518    ;;   XXX: uncertain of license to apply. Left out for now.             
>      519    (license '(license:gpl-3 license:public-domain))))  
>      -- 
>
> -- 
> Avoid eavesdropping.  Send strong encrypted email.
> PGP Public key ID: 1024D/2DE827B3 
> fingerprint = 8797 A26D 0854 2EAB 0285  A290 8A67 719C 2DE8 27B3
> See http://sks-keyservers.net or any PGP keyserver for public key.
>

-- 

Re: question about license of unofficial translation of GPL as a sample text in dbacl (Re: notmuch users: how do you filter debbugs?)

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

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I'm not a lawyer, so please don't take my recommendations as definitive
answer.

Regarding license translations that only serve as sample text, then I
guess the best thing to do is to remove the sample text.

If you decide to contact a lawyer or someone from the FSF who's able to
answer this question, please forward their answer here, or recommend
them (FSF) to write a section in the licensing FAQ to cover/answer this
concern.

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