* bug#65424: Guix doesn't use positional arguments in translated formatted messages @ 2023-08-21 12:09 Maxime Devos 2023-08-21 14:20 ` Julien Lepiller 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Maxime Devos @ 2023-08-21 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 65424 [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1160 bytes --] Consider, e.g., (format #t (G_ "~0@*~a should be set to ~1@*~a instead of ~2@*~a~%") "CC" "(cc-for-target)" "gcc") -> CC should be set to (cc-for-target) instead of gcc By using positional arguments like this, translators can reorder the sentence to: (format #t (G_ "It's not ~2@*~a that ~0@*~a should be set to, but ~1@*~a~%") "CC" (cc-for-target) "gcc")) ~0@*~a should be set to ~1@*~a instead of ~2@*~a~%") "CC" "(cc-for-target)" "gcc") -> It's not gcc that CC should be set to, but (cc-for-target). CC should be set to (cc-for-target) instead of gcc Such reorderings are occasionally useful, yet AFAIK nowhere (except po/guix/ta.po, the mcron service and de.po) is this used. Sure, you could as translator add these ~N@* afterwards, but you need to know that's possible in the first place (and if you know it's possible, you still need to remember or rediscover what exactly to write), and it would be much simpler and more discoverable if they were included from the start. Also, IIRC, Weblate complains if you add these. p.s.: I'm writing a new linter, this particular example doesn't occur yet in Guix. [-- Attachment #1.1.2: OpenPGP public key --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 929 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 236 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* bug#65424: Guix doesn't use positional arguments in translated formatted messages 2023-08-21 12:09 bug#65424: Guix doesn't use positional arguments in translated formatted messages Maxime Devos @ 2023-08-21 14:20 ` Julien Lepiller 2023-08-21 14:45 ` Maxime Devos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Julien Lepiller @ 2023-08-21 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Maxime Devos, 65424 Le 21 août 2023 14:09:14 GMT+02:00, Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be> a écrit : >Consider, e.g., > >(format #t (G_ "~0@*~a should be set to ~1@*~a instead of ~2@*~a~%") "CC" "(cc-for-target)" "gcc") >-> >CC should be set to (cc-for-target) instead of gcc > >By using positional arguments like this, translators can reorder the sentence to: > >(format #t (G_ "It's not ~2@*~a that ~0@*~a should be set to, but ~1@*~a~%") "CC" (cc-for-target) "gcc")) > >~0@*~a should be set to ~1@*~a instead of ~2@*~a~%") "CC" "(cc-for-target)" "gcc") >-> >It's not gcc that CC should be set to, but (cc-for-target). > >CC should be set to (cc-for-target) instead of gcc > >Such reorderings are occasionally useful, yet AFAIK nowhere (except po/guix/ta.po, the mcron service and de.po) is this used. > >Sure, you could as translator add these ~N@* afterwards, but you need to know that's possible in the first place (and if you know it's possible, you still need to remember or rediscover what exactly to write), and it would be much simpler and more discoverable if they were included from the start. Also, IIRC, Weblate complains if you add these. > >p.s.: I'm writing a new linter, this particular example doesn't occur yet in Guix. That sounds reasonnabe. The very least we could do is document this syntax in the manual. Weblate would complain indeed, sirce it won't find the same formats in the source and target strings. It might complain about the order too, but that's something we could contribute upstseam if it happens. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* bug#65424: Guix doesn't use positional arguments in translated formatted messages 2023-08-21 14:20 ` Julien Lepiller @ 2023-08-21 14:45 ` Maxime Devos 2023-08-21 16:12 ` Maxime Devos 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Maxime Devos @ 2023-08-21 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Julien Lepiller, 65424 [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4699 bytes --] Op 21-08-2023 om 16:20 schreef Julien Lepiller: > Le 21 août 2023 14:09:14 GMT+02:00, Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be> a écrit : >> Consider, e.g., >> >> (format #t (G_ "~0@*~a should be set to ~1@*~a instead of ~2@*~a~%") "CC" "(cc-for-target)" "gcc") >> -> >> CC should be set to (cc-for-target) instead of gcc >> >> By using positional arguments like this, translators can reorder the sentence to: >> >> (format #t (G_ "It's not ~2@*~a that ~0@*~a should be set to, but ~1@*~a~%") "CC" (cc-for-target) "gcc")) >> >> ~0@*~a should be set to ~1@*~a instead of ~2@*~a~%") "CC" "(cc-for-target)" "gcc") >> -> >> It's not gcc that CC should be set to, but (cc-for-target). >> >> CC should be set to (cc-for-target) instead of gcc >> >> Such reorderings are occasionally useful, yet AFAIK nowhere (except po/guix/ta.po, the mcron service and de.po) is this used. >> >> Sure, you could as translator add these ~N@* afterwards, but you need to know that's possible in the first place (and if you know it's possible, you still need to remember or rediscover what exactly to write), and it would be much simpler and more discoverable if they were included from the start. Also, IIRC, Weblate complains if you add these. >> >> p.s.: I'm writing a new linter, this particular example doesn't occur yet in Guix. > > That sounds reasonnabe. The very least we could do is document this syntax in the manual. Weblate would complain indeed, sirce it won't find the same formats in the source and target strings. It might complain about the order too, but that's something we could contribute upstseam if it happens. Proposed new documentation: * 22.5.5 Translatable messages When constructing translatable messages with 'format' (<reference to guile manual>), it is important to use positional arguments. For example, instead of writing (format #t (G_ "The package '~a' is newer than '~a'.~%") '("foo" "bar")), you should write (format #t (G_ "The package '~1@*~a' is newer than '~2@*~a'.~%") '("foo" "bar")) instead. The reason for this is that when translating between languages, the word order sometimes changes. While a translator could manually add the '~N@*' to the translation, it is more straightforward to include it in the untranslated message from the beginning. There is also a technical reason for this: Weblate doesn't cope well with the translated message and original message having a different number of '~'. Update the following documentation: If there are multiple formatting symbols, make sure to respect the order. Guile does not know in which order you intended the string to be read, so it will substitute the symbols in the same order as the English sentence. As an example, you cannot translate ‘package '~a' has been superseded by '~a'’ by ‘'~a' superseeds package '~a'’, because the meaning would be reversed. If FOO is superseded by BAR, the translation would read ‘'foo' superseeds package 'bar'’. To work around this problem, it is possible to use more advanced formatting to select a given piece of data, instead of following the default English order. *Note (guile)Formatted Output::, for more information on formatting in Guile. ---> If there are multiple formatting symbols, and positional arguments are used, you should be able to reorder the formatting symbols if it makes more sense in your language. The positional information tells Guile which formatting symbol needs to be replaced by which value. If positional arguments aren't used and there are multiple formatting symbols, that's a bug, and possibly to translate the message properly you may need to report the bug. The use of positional arguments in Guix is fairly new, so you might need to report plenty of them! As an example, you can translate ‘package '~1@*~a' has been superseded by '~2@*~a'’ by ‘'~2@*~a' superseeds package '~1@*~a'’. In this example, you recognise the positional arguments by the prefixes '~1@*' and '~2@*'. (To be explicit, the changes are Copyright 2023 Maxime Devos Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.3 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license is included in the section entitled ``GNU Free Documentation License''.) [-- Attachment #1.1.2: OpenPGP public key --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 929 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 236 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* bug#65424: Guix doesn't use positional arguments in translated formatted messages 2023-08-21 14:45 ` Maxime Devos @ 2023-08-21 16:12 ` Maxime Devos 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Maxime Devos @ 2023-08-21 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Julien Lepiller, 65424 [-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 534 bytes --] > Proposed new documentation: > > * 22.5.5 Translatable messages > > When constructing translatable messages with 'format' (<reference to > guile manual>), it is important to use positional arguments. For > example, instead of writing > > (format #t (G_ "The package '~a' is newer than '~a'.~%") > '("foo" "bar")), > > you should write > > (format #t (G_ "The package '~1@*~a' is newer than '~2@*~a'.~%") > '("foo" "bar")) Off-by-one error here [-- Attachment #1.1.2: OpenPGP public key --] [-- Type: application/pgp-keys, Size: 929 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 236 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-08-21 16:13 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2023-08-21 12:09 bug#65424: Guix doesn't use positional arguments in translated formatted messages Maxime Devos 2023-08-21 14:20 ` Julien Lepiller 2023-08-21 14:45 ` Maxime Devos 2023-08-21 16:12 ` Maxime Devos
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).