Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Alex Sassmannshausen <alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com>]

Hi Amirouche

Amirouche Boubekki writes:

> Le mer. 6 févr. 2019 à 14:47, Alex Sassmannshausen <alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>  >  - Janneke mentioned the new guile build system in guix for simpler
>  >    guile packages and I think that's pretty great.  Likewise there was
>  >    some mention of some sort of you-don't-have-to-use-autotools build
>  >    system and I don't remember what it's name was.  (BTW, I continue to
>  >    believe that "Guix is and should be Guile's package mangager".)
>
>  I was unaware that we had a guile build system in Guix.
>
> What is it?

I may be misunderstanding — so feel free to clarify!

The build system in Guix would be a value that can be declared in the
`build-system' field of package definitions.  It's basically what tells
Guix what steps need to be performed to build and install an
application.

Guile libraries and applications currently need to use the GNU Build
System, or the trivial build system, with some additional steps that
need to be added by the packager.

If we had a build system, we could simply stick the `guile-build-system'
value in the `build-system' field.

>  In the past I was the one who argued strongly for the build system and
>  for the no-autotools approach — I believe in the context of outreachy.
>  Unfortunately I was unable to make that part a reality.
>
>  Even so, I have been developing a solution that is part of this
>  discussion in the form of Guile Hall, which is a project manager for
>  Guile with strong integration with Guix & Autotools.
>
> guile hall can be found here https://gitlab.com/a-sassmannshausen/guile-hall

Thank you for adding that link.  I forgot to add that!

>  As you can see, I have a horse in this race.  I would be very interested
>  in collaborating with others who feel strongly about this part of the
>  Guile/Guix user journey — either on improvements to Hall, Guix or on
>  other tooling.
>
> Talking about tools and build systems, what do you think of https://waf.io/?

I have heard about it before, but to be honest I haven't engaged with
it.  For me, my engagement with build systems is a necessary evil.  I
want to do the right thing, but really I want to engage with them as
little as possible.

Hackers much more knowledgeable and experienced than I have persuasively
argued for the benefits of the Autotools infrastructure, which also is
the "blessed" GNU system.

This is why I decided to have Hall build Autotools infrastructure.

Sorry, this answer might not have been what you are looking for, but the
truth is I don't even know enough about build systems to be able to
evaluate their merits.

There has been talk in the past about Autotools replacements or Guile
build systems etc. but in the meantime I wanted to get something out
there, in a rather unlisp-y fashion perhaps, that is worse than better
(https://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html).

Best wishes,

Alex