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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com>
Cc: tsdh@gnu.org,  help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Making a function than can only be used interactively
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2022 17:18:22 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwv4jzwh9ls.fsf-monnier+Inbox@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <trinity-233eb4e8-82c5-4f98-b087-0cce56ba4918-1656967578200@3c-app-mailcom-bs07> (Christopher Dimech's message of "Mon, 4 Jul 2022 22:46:18 +0200")

> Another debate is that although one can declare a non-interactive function,
> and an interactive function that can run non-interactively; there is no
> construct that can define a purely interactive function.

That's because an "interactive function" is just a normal function
together with some auxiliary info to tell `call-interactive` how to call
it "interactively".  Internally `call-interactively` will end up calling
the function via `funcall`, i.e. "non-interactively".  So at
a low-level, technically you just can't have a function that can be
called interactively and not non-interactively.  You can try and kludge
it up above if you really want to (like we've seen in a few different
ways), but we're back to the question: what's the benefit?

> Does a function know whether it was run from lisp code or from the user in
> an Emacs session?

Trying to behave differently depending on who/how a function was called
goes against the design principle of functions, so it tends to be kludgy
and unreliable, like `called-interactively-p`.

BTW, here's another way to make a function that "can't" be called
non-interactively:

    (defun foo (a b c &optional extra)
      (interactive
       (list ... 'dont-you-dare-call-me-non-interactively))
      (unless (eql extra 'dont-you-dare-call-me-non-interactively)
        (error "foo called non-interactively"))
      ...)

You can make it "more robust" with something like:

    (defalias 'foo
      (let ((witness (make-symbol "dont-you-dare-call-me-non-interactively")))
        (lambda (a b c &optional extra)
          (interactive
            (list ... witness))
          (unless (eql extra witness)
            (error "foo called non-interactively"))
          ...)))

But again: is it really worth the trouble?  What is there to gain?
Instead of beating the undesired callers with a stick, why not try and
convince them to do something else with  carrot?


        Stefan




  reply	other threads:[~2022-07-04 21:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-07-04 20:10 Making a function than can only be used interactively Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04 20:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-04 20:46   ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04 21:18     ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2022-07-04 21:59       ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-05 22:34       ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-07-04 23:42 Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04 21:07 Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04 21:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-04 22:05   ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04 22:35     ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-04 23:33     ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04 19:32 Christopher Dimech
2022-07-03 19:16 carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-03 19:28 ` Bruno Barbier
     [not found] ` <N64WnlX--3-2@missing-mail-id>
2022-07-03 19:36   ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-03 19:53     ` Tassilo Horn
2022-07-03 20:17       ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-04  4:51         ` Tassilo Horn
2022-07-05 23:13       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-07-03 20:14     ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-03 20:27       ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-03 20:51       ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-03 21:18         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-03 21:29       ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-03 22:01         ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-03 22:45           ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-04  1:13             ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found]             ` <jwvczelllyq.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org-N65lQ2m----2>
2022-07-04 10:36               ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-04 10:55                 ` Tassilo Horn
2022-07-04 11:43                   ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04 13:21                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-04 14:08                       ` Robert Pluim
2022-07-04 21:40                       ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-05 17:35                         ` Jean Louis
2022-07-04 19:17                   ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-04 19:40                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-04 19:50                       ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-04 20:45                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-06  0:07                         ` Jean Louis
2022-07-06 20:00                           ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-06 20:29                             ` Jean Louis
2022-07-07 11:03                               ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-07 21:06                               ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-07 21:28                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-07-07 22:14                                   ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-08  3:40                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2022-07-08  6:08                                     ` Yuri Khan
2022-07-08  6:30                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-07-08  6:55                                         ` Yuri Khan
2022-07-08 11:44                                           ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-09  2:05                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-07-10  4:33                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-07-08 12:06                                           ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-08 12:11                                           ` Christopher Dimech
     [not found]                                           ` <N6Sh4jm--3-2@tutanota.com-N6ShCt5----2>
2022-07-08 12:18                                             ` carlmarcos--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-07-08 16:14                                           ` Christopher Dimech
2022-07-04  1:06     ` Po Lu

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