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From: Christopher Lemmer Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org>
To: ndame <ndame@protonmail.com>
Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks?
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 08:44:53 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87k11htj96.fsf@dustycloud.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b4q8jzniiuW8L3xmL0sPfIwqH6pZ8iqbIDANFXd3GZzQssHarca5H2IItSK3VaHPguM_OfilOaq6Yo0l3q3MCEJIUWg10c8BU3LhnTZLtyE=@protonmail.com>

ndame writes:

> There is a discussion on Reddit about sponsoring development of
> multithreading in Emacs, and people there say it's too hard, takes a
> lot of time and it doesn't even bring that much benefit to the user.
>
> If this is the case (is it?) then what are those other features which
> could bring much more tangible benefits for the user and assuming
> somebody works on them full time sponsored by the community they can
> be implemented in, say, a few months?

I guess there are really two potential directions to think about it:

 - What is the most potentially useful direction for newcomers who are
   familiar with other mainstream UI patterns?
 - What is the most potentially useful project for existing everyday
   emacs users?

I think these are two separate things to solve.  IMO the former is more
important than the latter right now because Emacs has a way of making
users capable of extending it... it is one of the most beautiful things
about the choice of lisp as its configuration system.

So the real question to me would be: how do we lower the barrier to
entry?  There's been a lot of discussion on this, and I think the
most promising direction to me so far has been seeing the wild success
of Spacemacs as a "starter pack" that comes preconfigured in a way that
it feels familiar to Vim users.

These days most programmers start off in neither Vi(m) nor Emacs, they
start out with UI patterns that solidified after those programs were
made.  My suspicion is that a Spacemacs-like "starter pack" would solve
a lot of this, but it's work that's hard to motivate... once most
developers are far enough down the Emacs rabbit hole, doing this work
really doesn't do much to scratch their own itch.

Thus if there's a space for paid work, I think it would be to do this
work which might not be as directly useful to the developer, but would
be directly useful to other newcomers.  It would be useful and important
IMO to directly test against newcomers' experiences and collect feedback.

(The more difficult question to me would be: do the training wheels ever
come off the bike?  Or is it just a "different UI pattern" at that point
that one comes to accept and use emacs in that way?)



  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-05-12 12:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 188+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-11 20:09 What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? ndame
2020-05-12  6:57 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-12  7:13   ` ndame
2020-05-12 12:54     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-12 13:07       ` ndame
2020-05-12 14:56         ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-13  0:39   ` HaiJun Zhang
2020-05-13  1:34     ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-05-13  1:50       ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-05-12 10:00 ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-12 11:10   ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-13  3:55     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-13 10:32       ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-14  5:11         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-14 10:34           ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-15  3:25             ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15  8:15               ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-16  4:18                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-16 22:07                   ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-18  3:45                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-18  8:05                       ` Tramp and crypted files (was: What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks?) Michael Albinus
2020-05-19  4:01                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-19 14:38                           ` Tramp and crypted files Michael Albinus
2020-05-20  4:00                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-19  8:51                         ` Deus Max
2020-05-19 14:48                           ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-20  8:27                             ` Deus Max
2020-05-20  8:49                               ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-20 17:49                                 ` Deus Max
2020-05-20 19:09                                   ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-25 18:48                               ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-26  4:13                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-26  7:13                                   ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-27  3:09                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-28 13:05                                 ` Deus Max
2020-05-29  9:16                                   ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-29 16:33                                     ` Deus Max
2020-06-07 15:08                                       ` Michael Albinus
2020-06-13 12:06                                         ` Deus Max
2020-06-13 13:15                                           ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-29 18:22                                     ` Deus Max
2020-05-17  8:28                   ` What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Michael Albinus
2020-05-12 11:57   ` Eric S Fraga
2020-05-12 15:34     ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-12 16:33       ` Eric S Fraga
2020-05-12 17:39         ` Tramp nextcloud (was: What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks?) Michael Albinus
2020-05-12 18:12           ` Tramp nextcloud H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-13  8:59           ` Eric S Fraga
2020-05-13  9:33             ` Tramp nextcloud (SOLVED) Eric S Fraga
2020-05-13 10:45               ` Michael Albinus
2020-05-13 11:10                 ` Eric S Fraga
2020-05-12 15:04   ` What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Arthur Miller
2020-05-12 16:00   ` Drew Adams
2020-05-12 12:30 ` Helmut Eller
2020-05-13  1:22   ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
     [not found]     ` <5AYrQ3kvagEiLsXcUuMZvkDj1gBHT4YnJyVCX6RsvMkayS1ZbGWk18lJOyo_m8XanhsUygUtEqZw8OOOQOlwkg==@protonmail.internalid>
2020-05-13  2:45     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-13  3:58       ` jao
2020-05-13 23:12   ` João Távora
2020-05-14  0:04     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-14 10:08       ` Helmut Eller
2020-05-14 10:17         ` tomas
2020-05-14 10:34           ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-14 10:40             ` tomas
2020-05-15  3:25               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15  3:39                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-15  3:25               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15  3:51                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-16  4:18                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-16  9:29                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17  2:55                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15  3:17       ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15  6:56         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-16  4:18           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-16  7:13             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-16 12:56               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-17  2:56               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-17  7:22                 ` Andreas Schwab
2020-05-18  3:42                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-18 14:29                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19  3:56                     ` shr.el rename? Richard Stallman
2020-05-19  5:50                       ` Drew Adams
2020-05-19 12:41                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-05-19 15:04                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-19 16:47                           ` T.V Raman
2020-05-20  3:59                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-20  4:02                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-18 15:20             ` What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Filipp Gunbin
2020-05-18 15:26               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15  9:10         ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-15 10:21           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15 11:07             ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-15 11:28               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15 11:49                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-15 11:58                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15 12:14                     ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-15 12:56                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15 15:22                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-15 15:28                         ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-16  4:18               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-16  4:17           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-16  6:50             ` Andreas Schwab
2020-05-16  8:24               ` Yuri Khan
2020-05-17  2:56               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-14 11:57   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-12 12:44 ` Christopher Lemmer Webber [this message]
2020-05-13 16:36   ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-14  3:01     ` Christopher Lemmer Webber
2020-05-14  4:08       ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-14 10:01         ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-14 16:35         ` Christopher Lemmer Webber
2020-05-17  1:31           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-18  3:43             ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15  3:16         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-28  4:00           ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-28 13:18             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-28 17:19               ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-28 18:05                 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-28 18:45                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-28 20:52                   ` Alan Third
2020-05-28 21:02                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-28 21:10                       ` Alan Third
2020-05-28 21:27                         ` andres.ramirez
2020-05-28 21:54                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-29 13:24                         ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-28 21:14                       ` Joost Kremers
2020-05-29 13:24                         ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-29  1:24                       ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-29  3:36                         ` Drew Adams
2020-05-29  3:06                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-29  3:41                       ` Drew Adams
2020-05-29 13:19                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-30  5:23                         ` Thibaut Verron
2020-05-29 13:11                     ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-13 17:48 ` ndame
2020-05-14  1:15   ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-14  4:10     ` ndame
2020-05-14  4:28       ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-15 10:38       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17  5:37         ` ndame
2020-05-17 12:42           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-17 13:18             ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-19  3:47               ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-17 22:03             ` chad
2020-05-13 21:05 ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2020-05-14 14:35 ` Björn Lindqvist
2020-06-03 11:39 ` What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? A: Autocompletion Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-03 12:36   ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-03 12:50     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-03 13:10       ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-03 13:59         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-03 14:21           ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-03 14:40             ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-03 18:49               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-06-03 14:49   ` Drew Adams
2020-06-03 20:15     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2020-06-03 20:36       ` Drew Adams
2020-06-03 20:49         ` Drew Adams
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-05-12  7:11 What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Zhu Zihao
2020-05-12  7:22 ndame
2020-05-27 15:58 Van Ly
2020-05-28  3:13 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-30  7:17   ` Van Ly
2020-05-31  7:10     ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-31 10:01       ` Van Ly
2020-05-31 12:49         ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-06-01  3:54           ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-01  5:21             ` Yuri Khan
2020-06-02  2:55               ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-02  3:57             ` Karl Fogel
2020-06-02  5:15               ` Ihor Radchenko
2020-06-02 13:42               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-06-01  9:11           ` Bastien
2020-06-01 15:03             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-01 23:32               ` Bastien
2020-06-01 23:50                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-06-06  9:42                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-06  9:58                     ` tomas
2020-06-06 10:11                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-06 10:29                         ` tomas
2020-06-06 14:19                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-06-06 14:58                           ` Arthur Miller
2020-06-06 20:18                         ` tomas
2020-06-06 22:20                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-06-06  9:59                     ` Thibaut Verron
2020-06-06 10:12                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-06-06 10:18                       ` tomas
2020-06-06 12:05                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-03-04 11:46 Evgeny Zajcev

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