From: martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>, Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
Cc: "Jean-Christophe Helary"
<jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org>,
"Richard Stallman" <rms@gnu.org>,
"Andreas Röhler" <andreas.roehler@online.de>,
"Emacs developers" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
"Karl Fogel" <kfogel@red-bean.com>,
homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp,
"Sergey Organov" <sorganov@gmail.com>,
"Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
"Arthur Miller" <arthur.miller@live.com>,
"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>,
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>,
"Stefan Kangas" <stefankangas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 11:06:12 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4518e4d3-f33a-256f-bb8e-342050bc59c7@gmx.at> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <bf76aabc-3452-5297-d4b7-ccff4032cffc@yandex.ru>
>> Right. In a "normal" session you have to create a minibuffer-only frame
>> first and then delete the normal frame to get uniform behavior. Emacs
>> does not offer a function to remove the minibuffer window from a normal
>> frame so this is the best you can get.
>
> Any chance to change the latter in Emacs 28? Is that difficult?
It's hairy and that's why people never tried to change the ritual of
setting up an initial frame with a minibuffer window. Likely to make
sure that if things go wrong anywhere, there's always at least one
minibuffer window you can act upon or that displays vital information
about what went wrong during setup.
Note that producing the minibuffer-less + minibuffer-only setup is
accomplished by 'frame-notice-user-settings' which deletes the initial
minibuffer-equipped frame in a hair-raising fashion in order to make
sure that at least one minibuffer window is available at any time.
> It would improve the starting experience quite a bit.
The startup experience of general minibuffer-only frame setups or that
of the setup with a minibuffer-only child frame? I think these are today
also affected by other parameters like, for example, whether you put
these specifications into an early init file or the normal one.
> The main remaining annoyance is the blink when the child frame is resized/repositioned.
You would have to tell me more about that blink. If it's due to the
setting of 'x-gtk-resize-child-frames', there's nothing I can do about
it. If it's due to the delay implied by 'pop-up-mini-hide-if-empty',
try to experiment with that.
> So how do you feel about a package in GNU ELPA?
Not really enthusiastic. The historical constraints of how to set up
and use the minibuffer window are too restrictive IMHO so what you see
here is just a workaround. Maybe things will change in a couple of
years.
> If we can move the settings into the definition of pop-up-mini-mode,
> it should be quite usable. And also do something with the scenario
> where someone installs it, turns on the mode, and simply stares at the
> error.
What's so bad about that error? It simply tells what is missing. If
you provide such a frame, things should work, even in parallel with the
already existing minibuffer window.
martin
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-05-20 9:06 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 277+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-05-08 8:26 Making Emacs popular again with a video Nathan Colinet
2020-05-08 10:39 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-10 20:48 ` Nathan Colinet
2020-05-08 10:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-10 16:18 ` Nathan Colinet
2020-05-08 11:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-10 20:32 ` Nathan Colinet
2020-05-11 22:59 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-09 7:50 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-10 20:57 ` Nathan Colinet
2020-05-12 3:12 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-12 7:04 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-12 13:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-12 14:47 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-12 16:08 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-13 4:01 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-13 8:49 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-14 5:14 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-14 10:22 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-14 10:55 ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-15 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15 7:55 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-15 10:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15 10:43 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-15 11:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-15 19:15 ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-15 18:41 ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-22 19:09 ` Ben McGinnes
[not found] ` <E1jcLVP-0003SB-II@fencepost.gnu.org>
2020-05-24 19:16 ` Ben McGinnes
2020-05-14 14:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-14 7:38 ` Tim Cross
2020-05-14 7:51 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-14 14:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-14 15:36 ` Tim Cross
2020-05-13 10:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-12 8:23 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-13 3:55 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-13 8:18 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-13 10:53 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-13 16:20 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-14 2:18 ` (emacs) Intro [was: Making Emacs popular again with a video] excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-14 12:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-14 21:31 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-15 0:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
[not found] ` <d28fe30d-c192-8022-b758-d8b7019e49b5@yandex.ru-M7KnL6R----2>
2020-05-17 19:11 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-19 14:14 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
[not found] ` <d66793e5-07f9-4dd9-928d-e7e8c342b781@default>
[not found] ` <M7iByNw--3-2@tutanota.com>
2020-05-21 18:18 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
[not found] ` <M7sSK-m--3-2@tutanota.com-M7sSUVm--3-2>
2020-05-28 1:21 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-28 7:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-28 7:41 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-28 10:23 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-29 2:39 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-29 7:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-29 7:40 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-29 15:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-30 1:39 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-14 22:14 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-15 3:17 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15 6:36 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-12 12:57 ` GNU Emacs raison d'etre excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-13 16:18 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-13 16:28 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-13 19:39 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-13 20:05 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-13 20:52 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-13 22:04 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-13 22:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-14 4:56 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-14 16:37 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-14 22:11 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-15 3:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-15 21:42 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-15 22:14 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-16 0:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-15 22:41 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-20 21:47 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-20 22:35 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-21 0:35 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-16 2:43 ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-05-18 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-18 11:26 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-16 8:05 ` Yuri Khan
2020-05-16 10:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-16 10:46 ` Yuri Khan
2020-05-17 1:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17 1:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17 1:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17 1:59 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-17 2:52 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-17 9:32 ` Joost Kremers
2020-05-17 11:07 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-18 3:43 ` transient Richard Stallman
2020-05-18 6:58 ` transient Joost Kremers
2020-05-18 11:29 ` transient Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-18 18:41 ` transient Howard Melman
2020-05-18 19:35 ` transient John Yates
2020-05-18 19:57 ` transient Howard Melman
2020-05-19 5:38 ` transient Drew Adams
2020-05-19 14:00 ` transient Arthur Miller
2020-05-20 3:14 ` transient Michael Heerdegen
[not found] ` <87tuztngxr.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
2020-06-03 4:32 ` bug#39902: transient Michael Heerdegen
2020-06-03 22:49 ` bug#39902: 28.0.50; Marking in dired with active region Juri Linkov
2020-06-04 12:31 ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-06-04 22:18 ` Juri Linkov
2020-05-19 22:04 ` transient Stefan Kangas
2020-05-19 22:53 ` transient Drew Adams
2020-05-19 4:02 ` which-key Richard Stallman
2020-05-17 7:09 ` GNU Emacs raison d'etre Drew Adams
2020-05-20 21:36 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-20 21:57 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-20 22:00 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-20 22:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-21 8:03 ` tomas
2020-05-21 9:33 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-21 10:04 ` tomas
2020-05-24 14:05 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-21 16:20 ` xristos
2020-05-24 13:45 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-24 16:52 ` xristos
2020-05-24 17:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-24 18:31 ` Philip K.
2020-05-25 17:34 ` João Távora
2020-05-26 4:14 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-26 11:32 ` João Távora
2020-05-27 3:08 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-27 5:01 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-29 12:59 ` Arthur Miller
2020-06-23 3:59 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-21 17:07 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-23 20:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-14 6:26 ` tomas
2020-05-14 6:16 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-05-15 3:18 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-16 0:56 ` Tak Kunihiro
2020-05-16 6:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-16 9:10 ` Sergey Organov
2020-05-16 10:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-16 12:24 ` Sergey Organov
2020-05-16 12:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-16 12:34 ` Sergey Organov
2020-05-16 12:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-16 13:57 ` Sergey Organov
2020-05-16 19:35 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-16 20:05 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-16 20:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-16 20:44 ` Bob Newell
2020-06-24 15:37 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-05-16 23:12 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-16 23:18 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-16 23:47 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-17 1:14 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 3:13 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-17 6:49 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 7:02 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-17 7:11 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 9:07 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-17 10:20 ` Marcin Borkowski
2020-05-17 11:07 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-17 15:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 15:48 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-17 17:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-17 17:31 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-17 18:57 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 20:03 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-18 8:32 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-18 11:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-18 13:02 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-18 13:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-18 16:31 ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-18 23:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-19 8:41 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-20 1:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-20 9:06 ` martin rudalics [this message]
2020-05-21 0:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-21 9:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-21 23:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-22 9:31 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-25 2:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-26 8:06 ` martin rudalics
2020-06-05 2:40 ` pop-up-mini-mode, was " Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-19 8:40 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-20 0:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-20 9:04 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-20 13:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-20 14:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 14:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-20 16:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 17:45 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-20 18:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 18:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 18:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-20 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 18:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 19:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-20 19:53 ` tomas
2020-05-20 21:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-21 7:43 ` tomas
2020-05-21 2:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-21 22:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-22 7:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-20 23:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-21 13:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-21 17:55 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-18 15:57 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-19 8:41 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-21 18:19 ` Suppressing beginning/end-of-buffer error messages (WAS: GNU Emacs raison d'etre) Noam Postavsky
2020-05-22 9:30 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-22 12:46 ` Noam Postavsky
[not found] ` <11bfe86b-131c-4f55-5125-c269a73e360d@gmx.at>
2020-05-23 11:10 ` Noam Postavsky
2020-05-17 18:36 ` GNU Emacs raison d'etre Drew Adams
2020-05-17 21:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-17 21:48 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 18:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17 21:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-17 21:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-18 8:33 ` martin rudalics
2020-05-18 11:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17 21:57 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 18:28 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 17:59 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-17 18:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17 7:54 ` Sergey Organov
2020-05-17 11:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-17 18:11 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-16 23:01 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-17 2:55 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-28 4:12 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-28 5:51 ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-05-28 6:13 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-28 14:12 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-28 14:42 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-28 16:34 ` Drew Adams
2020-05-29 14:44 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-28 15:00 ` Philip K.
2020-05-28 15:13 ` João Távora
2020-05-28 16:04 ` T.V Raman
[not found] ` <p914ks0kpui.fsf@google.com-M8R14r9----2>
2020-05-28 16:12 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-28 16:46 ` T.V Raman
2020-05-28 17:34 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-28 18:11 ` andres.ramirez
[not found] ` <877dwwezfr.fsf@red-bean.com-M8RLd3p--3-2>
2020-05-28 18:28 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-29 1:12 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-30 1:44 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-30 2:02 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-05-30 9:13 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-30 16:43 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-05-31 7:07 ` Richard Stallman
2020-06-08 17:37 ` REmacs was " T.V Raman
2020-06-01 7:29 ` Meaning behind Control-G Lars Brinkhoff
2020-06-01 7:56 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2020-06-01 9:06 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2020-06-01 13:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-06-02 1:51 ` Paul Eggert
2020-06-02 5:58 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2020-06-02 13:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-06-02 15:38 ` Drew Adams
2020-06-02 11:46 ` John Yates
2020-07-10 12:13 ` GNU Emacs raison d'etre Lars Brinkhoff
2020-07-10 14:28 ` Drew Adams
2020-07-11 2:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-28 16:41 ` FW: " Drew Adams
2020-05-28 17:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-28 20:33 ` Perry E. Metzger
2020-05-28 23:44 ` T.V Raman
2020-05-29 3:04 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-13 19:46 ` T.V Raman
2020-05-13 21:00 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-05-13 21:02 ` excalamus--- via Emacs development discussions.
2020-05-13 22:22 ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-14 4:20 ` Karl Fogel
2020-05-14 0:04 ` John Wiegley
2020-05-14 5:08 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-14 20:29 ` Karl Fogel
[not found] <64c4b2e4-3c07-0ad4-bcdf-39e95cae8a57.ref@aol.com>
2020-08-09 17:11 ` Clive Tovero
2020-08-10 1:26 ` Alexandre Garreau
[not found] <c0ffdaa1-90cc-2bb3-d2e0-93c7115df969.ref@aol.com>
2020-08-10 2:49 ` Clive Tovero
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