From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Is there a way to avoid clobbering minibuffer by messages?
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2023 16:28:16 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488EF349775EDAA44177E39F38E9@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e246266e9f40e7a19d45@heytings.org>
> > If that is what you see, then it's the intended behavior. That you are
> > not used to it doesn't mean it's incorrect or broken. Functionally, it
> > does the job, and we don't have any better alternatives for the case
> > when a message should be shown when the minibuffer is active.
>
> It's true that we don't have any better _built-in_ alternatives, but I
> think what the OP wants is something like the code in the attached file.
FWIW, maybe it's time to add an _option_ to separate
the echo-area real estate from that of the minibuffer.
E.g., optionally use separate windows (or standalone
frames) for them.
____
Personally, I'm not a fan of the change introduced
in Emacs 28 (with no way to opt-out, IIUC).
IIUC, the problem it tries to fix (work around) is
the display of msgs that arrive during minibuffer
input (in particular from async processes). Yes,
that's a real problem (which we've lived with for
decades).
The Emacs 28 "solution" substitutes (1) showing
the output (a message in [...] brackets) in the
minibuffer (an input area), at the _same time_ as
showing the input there, for (2) the longstanding
behavior of temporarily overwriting that shared
screen area, that is, momentarily showing the echo
area _instead of_ the minibuffer.
Arguably, at least for some users (I'm one), the
Emacs 28+ cure is worse than the traditional
disease. It's not that I think the cure shouldn't
be available; I just think it should be optional -
one possible choice.
A better solution would be to let users choose to
substitute having ~persistently separate display
spaces for input and output.
That is, instead of both (1) the pre-28 behavior
of temporarily swapping what's shown in that
screen space shared between the minibuffer (for
input) and the echo area (for output), and (2)
the 28+ behavior of showing both input & output
in the same space at the same time.
IOW, _no space sharing_: be able to cut the cord
and separate the input and output screen spaces.
Further options could be added for _how_ to show
the output (messages): whether to dedicate a
window or just pop up a window, etc.
But the main thing would be to offer a choice to
just stop sharing screen real estate between
minibuffer (input) and echo area (output).
Why not let users choose among several behaviors?
1. Emacs 28+ approach: message and input in
minibuffer at the same time.
2. Traditional approach: echo area displayed
temporarily, in place of the minibuffer.
3. Minibuffer and echo area shown separately,
in different places?
And offer various choices for #3: how to show
the echo area.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-03-30 16:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-03-30 7:57 Is there a way to avoid clobbering minibuffer by messages? Platon Pronko
2023-03-30 8:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 9:40 ` Platon Pronko
2023-03-30 10:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 15:05 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-30 16:28 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2023-03-30 16:35 ` [External] : " Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 16:49 ` Drew Adams
2023-03-30 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 17:32 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-30 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 18:14 ` John Yates
2023-03-30 18:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 20:08 ` John Yates
2023-03-31 6:32 ` Yuri Khan
2023-03-30 18:16 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-30 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 19:37 ` Sergey Organov
2023-03-30 19:45 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-30 20:02 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-30 20:06 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-30 19:26 ` Jean Louis
2023-03-31 10:40 ` Eric S Fraga
2023-03-30 19:22 ` Jean Louis
2023-03-31 6:24 ` Platon Pronko
2023-03-31 6:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-31 7:01 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-31 7:10 ` Platon Pronko
2023-03-31 7:17 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-31 7:45 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-31 11:04 ` John Covici
2023-03-31 11:09 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-31 12:46 ` John Covici
2023-03-30 9:52 ` Gregory Heytings
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