From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Is there a way to avoid clobbering minibuffer by messages? 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:143152 Archived-At: > > If that is what you see, then it's the intended behavior. That you are > > not used to it doesn't mean it's incorrect or broken. Functionally, it > > does the job, and we don't have any better alternatives for the case > > when a message should be shown when the minibuffer is active. >=20 > It's true that we don't have any better _built-in_ alternatives, but I > think what the OP wants is something like the code in the attached file. FWIW, maybe it's time to add an _option_ to separate the echo-area real estate from that of the minibuffer. E.g., optionally use separate windows (or standalone frames) for them. ____ Personally, I'm not a fan of the change introduced in Emacs 28 (with no way to opt-out, IIUC). IIUC, the problem it tries to fix (work around) is the display of msgs that arrive during minibuffer input (in particular from async processes). Yes, that's a real problem (which we've lived with for decades). The Emacs 28 "solution" substitutes (1) showing the output (a message in [...] brackets) in the minibuffer (an input area), at the _same time_ as showing the input there, for (2) the longstanding behavior of temporarily overwriting that shared screen area, that is, momentarily showing the echo area _instead of_ the minibuffer. Arguably, at least for some users (I'm one), the Emacs 28+ cure is worse than the traditional disease. It's not that I think the cure shouldn't be available; I just think it should be optional - one possible choice. A better solution would be to let users choose to substitute having ~persistently separate display spaces for input and output. That is, instead of both (1) the pre-28 behavior of temporarily swapping what's shown in that screen space shared between the minibuffer (for input) and the echo area (for output), and (2) the 28+ behavior of showing both input & output in the same space at the same time. IOW, _no space sharing_: be able to cut the cord and separate the input and output screen spaces. Further options could be added for _how_ to show the output (messages): whether to dedicate a window or just pop up a window, etc. But the main thing would be to offer a choice to just stop sharing screen real estate between minibuffer (input) and echo area (output). Why not let users choose among several behaviors? 1. Emacs 28+ approach: message and input in minibuffer at the same time. 2. Traditional approach: echo area displayed temporarily, in place of the minibuffer. 3. Minibuffer and echo area shown separately, in different places? And offer various choices for #3: how to show the echo area.