Cua-mode binding of S-return

Cua-mode binding of S-return

[Kim F. Storm]

Currently cua-mode uses S-return to toggle rectangle marking.

This works nicely most of the time, but it is just too easy to
accidentally hit it after another shifted key, e.g. an upper case
letter.

Therefore, I would like to move this to another binding, but I 
don't quite know which.  

C-return seems like a good candidate, analogue to C-space for the normal mark.

Unfortunately, C-return is used by tex-mode and thumbs-mode:

   (define-key map [(control return)] 'tex-feed-input)
   (define-key map [(control return)] 'thumbs-set-image-at-point-to-root-window)

Calculator also uses it, but this is in a special environment where rectangle
marking doesn't make much sense anyway:

   (calculator-save-and-quit [(control return)]

The thumbs binding is a bit odd, as it could just as well be bound to a regular
key, such as `r'.

That really leaves just the tex-mode binding -- so I wonder how commonly
used that binding is (C-c C-m also runs tex-feed-input).

Of course, this is all relevant only when you use cua-mode.

But we have talked about separating the cua-mode rectangle code
from cua, and as such a good binding to toggle rectangle marking
will have to be found anyway.

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: Cua-mode binding of S-return

[David Kastrup]

storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:

> Currently cua-mode uses S-return to toggle rectangle marking.
>
> This works nicely most of the time, but it is just too easy to
> accidentally hit it after another shifted key, e.g. an upper case
> letter.
>
>
> That really leaves just the tex-mode binding -- so I wonder how
> commonly used that binding is (C-c C-m also runs tex-feed-input).
>
> Of course, this is all relevant only when you use cua-mode.
>
> But we have talked about separating the cua-mode rectangle code
> from cua, and as such a good binding to toggle rectangle marking
> will have to be found anyway.

For what it's worth: AUCTeX has M-RET, M-j, C-j, C-c RET, but indeed
C-return is, much to my surprise, unbound.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Cua-mode binding of S-return

[Kevin Rodgers]

Kim F. Storm wrote:
 > Unfortunately, C-return is used by tex-mode and thumbs-mode:
 >
 >    (define-key map [(control return)] 'tex-feed-input)
 >    (define-key map [(control return)] 
'thumbs-set-image-at-point-to-root-window)
...
 > The thumbs binding is a bit odd, as it could just as well be bound to 
a regular
 > key, such as `r'.

How about `/', as a mnemonic for "root"?

-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: Cua-mode binding of S-return

[Peter Heslin]

Apologies for coming late to this thread ...

On 2005-04-28, Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> wrote:
> 
>  Currently cua-mode uses S-return to toggle rectangle marking.
> 
>  This works nicely most of the time, but it is just too easy to
>  accidentally hit it after another shifted key, e.g. an upper case
>  letter.

I have never had this problem, even though I use cua-mode and I am a
very bad, horribly sloppy typist.

>  Therefore, I would like to move this to another binding, but I 
>  don't quite know which.  
> 
>  C-return seems like a good candidate, analogue to C-space for the normal mark.

C-return is used by nxml-mode for nxml-complete, its incredibly useful
context-sensitive autocompletion function.  nxml-mode is not a part of
Emacs (yet), so strictly speaking it's not a conflict, but ...

Here is a bit more detail from James Clark (in nxml-mode.texi)

    The traditional GNU Emacs key combination for completion in a
    buffer is `M-<TAB>'. However, many window systems and window
    managers use this key combination themselves (typically for
    switching between windows) and do not pass it to
    applications. It's hard to find key combinations in GNU Emacs that
    are both easy to type and not taken by something else.  `C-<RET>'
    (i.e.  pressing the Enter or Return key, while the Ctrl key is
    held down) is available.  It won't be available on a traditional
    terminal (because it is indistinguishable from Return), but it
    will work with a window system.  Therefore we adopt the following
    solution by default: use `C-<RET>' when there's a window system
    and `M-<TAB>' when there's not.  In the following, I will assume
    that a window system is being used and will therefore refer to
    `C-<RET>'.

>  But we have talked about separating the cua-mode rectangle code
>  from cua, and as such a good binding to toggle rectangle marking
>  will have to be found anyway.

Have you really had complaints about S-return?

Peter

Re: Cua-mode binding of S-return

[Kim F. Storm]

Peter Heslin <public@heslin.eclipse.co.uk> writes:

> C-return is used by nxml-mode for nxml-complete, its incredibly useful
> context-sensitive autocompletion function.  nxml-mode is not a part of
> Emacs (yet), so strictly speaking it's not a conflict, but ...
>
> Here is a bit more detail from James Clark (in nxml-mode.texi)
>
>     The traditional GNU Emacs key combination for completion in a
>     buffer is `M-<TAB>'. However, many window systems and window
>     managers use this key combination themselves (typically for
>     switching between windows) and do not pass it to
>     applications. It's hard to find key combinations in GNU Emacs that
>     are both easy to type and not taken by something else.  `C-<RET>'
>     (i.e.  pressing the Enter or Return key, while the Ctrl key is
>     held down) is available.  It won't be available on a traditional
>     terminal (because it is indistinguishable from Return), but it
>     will work with a window system.  Therefore we adopt the following
>     solution by default: use `C-<RET>' when there's a window system
>     and `M-<TAB>' when there's not.  In the following, I will assume
>     that a window system is being used and will therefore refer to
>     `C-<RET>'.

As James explains, this is a general problem, i.e. not limited to nxml-mode.

As such, it should be solved generally, rather than hotch-potch fixes in
individual packages.

Usually, I just use ESC TAB for completion when M-TAB doesn't work, and
I guess other users do the same, as I don't hear many complaints that
M-TAB doesn't work...

I don't know what other good alternative there is for M-TAB, but
although C-return could seem ok, I still think it would be better
used for rectangle marking due to the analogy with C-SPC.

>>  But we have talked about separating the cua-mode rectangle code
>>  from cua, and as such a good binding to toggle rectangle marking
>>  will have to be found anyway.
>
> Have you really had complaints about S-return?

Yes, and I make the mistake myself too often!

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: Cua-mode binding of S-return

[Richard Stallman]

    As James explains, this is a general problem, i.e. not limited to nxml-mode.

    As such, it should be solved generally, rather than hotch-potch fixes in
    individual packages.

That is right.  When specific modes try to solve perceived problems in
general Emacs conventions by departing from them, the overall result
is to make things worse.  Every general convention, those we use and
the alternatives we might have used, is a trade-off, so there will be
plenty situations where these conventions are inconvenient for
someone.  But when modes don't follow them, that creates worse
problems.

Re: Cua-mode binding of S-return

[Kai Großjohann]

storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:

> Usually, I just use ESC TAB for completion when M-TAB doesn't work, and
> I guess other users do the same, as I don't hear many complaints that
> M-TAB doesn't work...

C-M-i might also be easy to type.

We could make C-<tab> be another way to type M-TAB.

Kai