how to display the NEWS file

how to display the NEWS file

[Werner LEMBERG]

I suggest to add a file variable to the NEWS file so that it is
displayed as if `hide-body' (C-c C-t) has been called (probably with a
comment how to expand the hidden sections).  Such a change makes this
file *much* more readable IMHO.


    Werner

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Luc Teirlinck]

Werner Lemberg wrote:

   I suggest to add a file variable to the NEWS file so that it is
   displayed as if `hide-body' (C-c C-t) has been called (probably with a
   comment how to expand the hidden sections).  Such a change makes this
   file *much* more readable IMHO.

I disagree.  I believe that would be confusing.  You can do C-c C-t
anytime if you prefer to look at it that way.

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Stefan Monnier]

>    I suggest to add a file variable to the NEWS file so that it is
>    displayed as if `hide-body' (C-c C-t) has been called (probably with a
>    comment how to expand the hidden sections).  Such a change makes this
>    file *much* more readable IMHO.

> I disagree.  I believe that would be confusing.  You can do C-c C-t
> anytime if you prefer to look at it that way.

I agree it would be confusing since the user would have to learn how to use
outline-mode, which is not as straight-forward as one might like.
OTOH if you also turn on reveal-mode, then it's at least easier for the user
to read the rest of the text, although she still has to come up with the
idea of trying to move into those "..." to see whether they actually stand
for something or not.


        Stefan

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Richard Stallman]

    I suggest to add a file variable to the NEWS file so that it is
    displayed as if `hide-body' (C-c C-t) has been called (probably with a
    comment how to expand the hidden sections).  Such a change makes this
    file *much* more readable IMHO.

Not everyone knows how to use Outline mode.  We should not put them
in a situation where they have to know it in order to read the file.

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Werner LEMBERG]

>    I suggest to add a file variable to the NEWS file so that it is
>    displayed as if `hide-body' (C-c C-t) has been called (probably
>    with a comment how to expand the hidden sections).  Such a change
>    makes this file *much* more readable IMHO.
> 
> I disagree.  I believe that would be confusing.

Why?  It shoud be straighforward to add a single sentence at the top
of the NEWS file which explains how to expand an item.


    Werner

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Werner LEMBERG]

> I agree it would be confusing since the user would have to learn how
> to use outline-mode, which is not as straight-forward as one might
> like.  OTOH if you also turn on reveal-mode, then it's at least
> easier for the user to read the rest of the text, although she still
> has to come up with the idea of trying to move into those "..." to
> see whether they actually stand for something or not.

Actually, the ellipsis dots should be clickable, then outline mode it
is really simple for Joe User...


    Werner

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Richard Stallman]

    Actually, the ellipsis dots should be clickable, then outline mode it
    is really simple for Joe User...

I think that is a good idea.  Want to work on it?

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Werner LEMBERG]

>     Actually, the ellipsis dots should be clickable, then outline
>     mode it is really simple for Joe User...
> 
> I think that is a good idea.  Want to work on it?

Hmm, what do you think about using `*', `**', `***', etc. in the
document itself, but Emacs displays asterisks as `+' if the outline is
hidden, and as `-' if it is expanded.  Then we would have a treelike
structure as available in other applications too:


  -  Installation Changes in Emacs 22.1...
  ++ Emacs now supports new configure options `--program-prefix',...
  ++ Emacs can now be built without sound support....
  -- You can build Emacs with Gtk+ widgets by specifying
     `--with-x-toolkit=gtk' when you run configure.  This requires
     Gtk+ 2.0 or newer.  This port provides a way to display
     multilingual text in menus (with some caveats).

     ---
  ++ The `emacsserver' program has been removed, replaced with Lisp code....
  ++ By default, Emacs now uses a setgid helper program to update game...
  ++ Leim is now part of the Emacs distribution....


The `++' and `--' would get a different colour (or being displayed as
bold or underlined) and would be clickable too.  For better
readability it would also be preferable to indent all paragraphs (to
be done in the document, not at display time).

I fear that I won't be able to implement that properly, partly because
of a lack of Lisp knowledge and partly of lacking time.  Fortunately,
this is nothing urgent, and if nobody volunteers, I'll have a look for
this in the next few months.

Whatever is implemented (or not implemented), I ask all NEWS
contributors to make the first line a complete sentence.

Is outline-minor-mode intended to be used in addition to text-mode for
editing NEWS?  Perhaps it is possible to add a hook to fill-paragraph
so that lines with the leading asterisk(s) are not filled.


    Werner

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Luc Teirlinck]

Werner Lemberg wrote:

   Hmm, what do you think about using `*', `**', `***', etc. in the
   document itself, but Emacs displays asterisks as `+' if the outline is
   hidden, and as `-' if it is expanded.  Then we would have a treelike
   structure as available in other applications too:

If your change is supposed to apply to Outline mode in general, then
you run into the difficulty that Outline mode does not necessarily use
*'s to recognize heading lines, although the NEWS does.  And it would
be further abuse of the display property.

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: how to display the NEWS file

[Richard Stallman]

    Hmm, what do you think about using `*', `**', `***', etc. in the
    document itself, but Emacs displays asterisks as `+' if the outline is
    hidden, and as `-' if it is expanded.

A feature to display buffers in this way could be a useful one, but I
think it would be better to choose the actual buffer text to make it
as natural and easy as possible--not stick with a buffer format that
was designed for another purpose.

If someone would like to work on implementing this, please do,
but I don't think we should install it until after the coming release.