The color of a header line and window selection.

The color of a header line and window selection.

[Lute Kamstra]

Under X, in a frame with multiple windows, the mode line of the
selected window will be darker than the mode lines of the other
windows.  A header line, however, always has the light color.  Is
there a reason why the header line should behave differently?

  Lute.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Miles Bader]

Lute Kamstra <Lute.Kamstra@cwi.nl> writes:
> Under X, in a frame with multiple windows, the mode line of the
> selected window will be darker than the mode lines of the other
> windows.  A header line, however, always has the light color.  Is
> there a reason why the header line should behave differently?

I suppose it's because people think of the mode-line as being a sort of
`frame', but the header-line as being basically part of the buffer...

-Miles
-- 
97% of everything is grunge

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Lute Kamstra]

Miles Bader <miles@lsi.nec.co.jp> writes:

> Lute Kamstra <Lute.Kamstra@cwi.nl> writes:
>
>> Under X, in a frame with multiple windows, the mode line of the
>> selected window will be darker than the mode lines of the other
>> windows.  A header line, however, always has the light color.  Is
>> there a reason why the header line should behave differently?
>
> I suppose it's because people think of the mode-line as being a sort
> of `frame', but the header-line as being basically part of the
> buffer...

Actually, the light color of the header-line is identical to the color
of the menus and the toolbar.  To me, this makes the header line
appear as a part of the frame.

I would prefer that the header line behaves like the mode line in that
it has the same color for a selected window.  If people don't like
this idea, it still may be a good idea to offer users the opportunity
to do this.  As is stands now, there are two standard faces for the
mode line (`mode-line' and `mode-line-inactive') and just one face for
the header line (`header-line').  We could introduce the face
`header-line-inactive' and use it to color the header line of
non-selected windows and use `header-line' for selected windows only.


  Lute.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Richard Stallman]

    Under X, in a frame with multiple windows, the mode line of the
    selected window will be darker than the mode lines of the other
    windows.  A header line, however, always has the light color.  Is
    there a reason why the header line should behave differently?

The header line is not used like the mode line.  Most windows don't
have header lines, and those that do, use them to go with the text
in the window rather than to say what the window is showing.
So I think they should not change color.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Richard Stallman]

    Actually, the light color of the header-line is identical to the color
    of the menus and the toolbar.  To me, this makes the header line
    appear as a part of the frame.

It isn't part of the frame, so if the default color makes it look that
way, we should change it.  The `header-line' face should specify a
color that makes it appear to be what it is--part of the window
contents.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Lute Kamstra]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     Actually, the light color of the header-line is identical to the color
>     of the menus and the toolbar.  To me, this makes the header line
>     appear as a part of the frame.
>
> It isn't part of the frame, so if the default color makes it look that
> way, we should change it.  The `header-line' face should specify a
> color that makes it appear to be what it is--part of the window
> contents.

I just noticed that my remark is only true for the GTK version.  Emacs
compiled with LessTif works the other way around: the menus and the
toolbar have the dark color of the selected mode line while the header
line with its light color seems more part of the buffer.

  Lute.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Richard Stallman]

    > It isn't part of the frame, so if the default color makes it look that
    > way, we should change it.  The `header-line' face should specify a
    > color that makes it appear to be what it is--part of the window
    > contents.

    I just noticed that my remark is only true for the GTK version.  Emacs
    compiled with LessTif works the other way around: the menus and the
    toolbar have the dark color of the selected mode line while the header
    line with its light color seems more part of the buffer.

Is the inconsistency in the default colors of the menu bar etc?
That is somewhat undesirable, I'd say.  Maybe we should make the
default colors of the header line depend on the toolkit in use.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Lute Kamstra]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     > It isn't part of the frame, so if the default color makes it look that
>     > way, we should change it.  The `header-line' face should specify a
>     > color that makes it appear to be what it is--part of the window
>     > contents.
>
>     I just noticed that my remark is only true for the GTK version.  Emacs
>     compiled with LessTif works the other way around: the menus and the
>     toolbar have the dark color of the selected mode line while the header
>     line with its light color seems more part of the buffer.
>
> Is the inconsistency in the default colors of the menu bar etc?

Yes.  When Emacs is compiled with GTK, the menu bar and the tool bar
have the light color of the header line and the mode line of a
non-selected window.  When Emacs is compiled with LessTif, the menu
bar and the tool bar have the dark color of the mode line of a
selected window.  I didn't check the Athena toolkit, but if memory
serves me, it behaves like LessTif in this respect.

> That is somewhat undesirable, I'd say.  Maybe we should make the
> default colors of the header line depend on the toolkit in use.

I think it's better to make the colors of the menu bar and tool bar
the same for all toolkits.


  Lute.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Stefan Monnier]

> Yes.  When Emacs is compiled with GTK, the menu bar and the tool bar
> have the light color of the header line and the mode line of a
> non-selected window.  When Emacs is compiled with LessTif, the menu
> bar and the tool bar have the dark color of the mode line of a
> selected window.  I didn't check the Athena toolkit, but if memory
> serves me, it behaves like LessTif in this respect.

I think the similarity of those colors is accidental more than
anything else.

> I think it's better to make the colors of the menu bar and tool bar
> the same for all toolkits.

If set explicitly, that should already be the case.
As for the default, I'd say the default color for the Gtk menu should
be the same as for other Gtk applications rather than the same as
the Motif menu (and same thing applies to other combinations of
Gtk/Motif/Lucid).


        Stefan

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Jan D.]

> > Yes.  When Emacs is compiled with GTK, the menu bar and the tool bar
> > have the light color of the header line and the mode line of a
> > non-selected window.  When Emacs is compiled with LessTif, the menu
> > bar and the tool bar have the dark color of the mode line of a
> > selected window.  I didn't check the Athena toolkit, but if memory
> > serves me, it behaves like LessTif in this respect.
> 
> I think the similarity of those colors is accidental more than
> anything else.
> 

This is true.  The default for Motif is a dark gray and fot GTK a very
light gray.  It is just by chance that the default for the modeline
of a selected window is close to the default for Motif/Lesstif.

> > I think it's better to make the colors of the menu bar and tool bar
> > the same for all toolkits.
> 
> If set explicitly, that should already be the case.
> As for the default, I'd say the default color for the Gtk menu should
> be the same as for other Gtk applications rather than the same as
> the Motif menu (and same thing applies to other combinations of
> Gtk/Motif/Lucid).

For GTK this is a must if themes shall work.

	Jan D.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Richard Stallman]

    > That is somewhat undesirable, I'd say.  Maybe we should make the
    > default colors of the header line depend on the toolkit in use.

    I think it's better to make the colors of the menu bar and tool bar
    the same for all toolkits.

All else being equal, I agree, but it is more important to make Emacs
to be consistent with the general conventions (and other apps) for any
given toolkit.

Is that the way it is now?

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Jan D.]

Richard Stallman wrote:
>     > That is somewhat undesirable, I'd say.  Maybe we should make the
>     > default colors of the header line depend on the toolkit in use.
> 
>     I think it's better to make the colors of the menu bar and tool bar
>     the same for all toolkits.
> 
> All else being equal, I agree, but it is more important to make Emacs
> to be consistent with the general conventions (and other apps) for any
> given toolkit.
> 
> Is that the way it is now?

Yes.  Emacs uses the defaults and customizations of the toolkit in use.

	Jan D.

Re: The color of a header line and window selection.

[Richard Stallman]

    > All else being equal, I agree, but it is more important to make Emacs
    > to be consistent with the general conventions (and other apps) for any
    > given toolkit.
    > 
    > Is that the way it is now?

    Yes.  Emacs uses the defaults and customizations of the toolkit in use.

I thin we should set the default settings of the header-line face in
a way that is appropriate to the default colors of the toolkit in use.
That way it could be reasonable by default for every toolkit.

People who customize their toolkit colors may want to customize
the header-line face also, but that's ok.