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From: John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,
	Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: New key binding syntax
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 09:52:38 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJnXXoi+2ZA66W3dKE+O1a9a3nE6fkBMBMT2-aaZMtc6swYeuQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87v916k970.fsf@gnus.org>

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 9:45 AM Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
> All characters usually count when dealing with strings.

That is true when the semantics are those of a string, e.g. printing.

It is rarely true when the string is a rendering in a domain-specific
language or notation intended to be parsed.  "C-x 2" is parsed as
as a sequence of items (keys) with whitespace serving to separate
the items.  Saying that " C-x  2 " cannot be parsed or, what would
be even more surprising, that it does parse but means something
different violates the principle of least astonishment.

Arguing that one clearly is dealing with a  _string_ is weakened
by the fact that today, in many settings, when Emacs outputs a
key sequence, it fails to enclose it in quotes.

> Which may say "C-c a runs the command (lambda nil", which doesn't tell
> you where it's defined.

Suggesting a possible enhancement to Emacs' representation
of lambdas.

It also represents an incentive for users not to use lambda in
key bindings.  Perhaps the documentation should have a
cautionary list of downsides to using lambda in keybindings.

> > Finally, I will point out that you are retracting current keydef
> > functionality.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean here.  The entire point here is to move away
> from five different key definition syntaxes to one syntax.  So of course
> I'm "retracting" functionality.

I was referring to handling of whitespace by Dave Gillespie's
nearly thirty year old edmacro.el, the basis for John Wiegley's
use-package key binding functionality.  From edmacro-mode's
doc string:

| Text is divided into \"words\" separated by whitespace.  Except for
| the words described below, the characters of each word go directly
| as characters of the macro.  The whitespace that separates words
| is ignored.  Whitespace in the macro must be written explicitly,
| as in \"foo SPC bar RET\".

I can vouch for the fact that edmacro, as invoked by use-package,
accepts arbitrary leading, intervening and trailing whitespace.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-11-06 13:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 320+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20211004081724.6281.11798@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <20211004081726.AB24621048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
2021-10-04  8:56   ` master 192f935 1/3: Add 'define-keymap' and 'defvar-keymap' Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04  9:42     ` Adam Porter
2021-10-04 10:13       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-10  7:40         ` Madhu
2021-10-19 18:02         ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-19 18:18           ` Change indentation of keyword lists/arrays Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-20 16:39             ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-20 19:02               ` Tassilo Horn
2021-10-21  3:02               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  3:59                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-04 13:06   ` master 192f935 1/3: Add 'define-keymap' and 'defvar-keymap' Stefan Monnier
2021-10-04 13:09     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04 13:14       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-04 13:44         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04 14:34           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04 16:17           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-05  6:31             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
     [not found] ` <20211004081727.4F24921048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
2021-10-12 12:47   ` master 859190f 2/3: Convert some keymaps to defvar-keymap Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 13:00     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 13:18       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 13:22         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 14:24           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 20:22             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 20:32               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 21:34                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 23:23                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 23:40                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13  3:18                     ` Moving kbd to subr.el Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 11:10                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 12:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 12:42                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 14:26                           ` T.V Raman
2021-10-13 15:01                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 15:03                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 16:01                                 ` T.V Raman
2021-10-13 15:11                               ` T.V Raman
2021-10-13 12:50                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 13:28                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:33                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 22:28                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 22:45                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 22:54                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14  7:23                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 11:50                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 11:56                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 12:06                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:28                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 20:55                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 21:04                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 21:13                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15  2:07                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-15 10:28                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 11:05                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15 11:10                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15 11:34                                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-15 12:31                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 12:39                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 13:32                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-15 14:04                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 14:44                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-15 16:05                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-15 16:31                                                           ` T.V Raman
2021-10-15 11:26                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-16 13:48                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-16 14:33                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-16 15:55                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-17 18:54                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-17 19:32                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-17 19:39                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-17 19:42                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-17 19:58                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 11:41                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 11:52                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 13:01                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 13:07                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 12:40                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-20  6:47                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20  7:48                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-20 13:18                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-21  2:52                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  3:36                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-21  3:39                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  4:07                                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-21  4:37                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  4:58                                                                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-20 14:21                                                                 ` T.V Raman
2021-10-21  2:53                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21 14:19                                                                     ` T.V Raman
2021-10-20 18:51                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-21  2:53                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21 13:40                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 14:20                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-22 14:57                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 15:02                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-22 15:06                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 15:10                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-22 18:16                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 18:18                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-23 23:29                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-24  6:10                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26  3:01                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-24 13:24                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-24 18:10                                                                                         ` Corwin Brust
2021-10-24 18:42                                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-25 16:06                                                                                             ` Corwin Brust
2021-10-25 16:10                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-27 14:41                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-28 12:19                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-28 12:25                                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-30  6:53                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-30 12:36                                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-31  2:39                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-31 14:57                                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-02  3:54                                                                                                     ` New key binding syntax Richard Stallman
2021-11-02 11:08                                                                                                       ` John Yates
2021-11-04  2:36                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-04  9:37                                                                                                           ` Robert Pluim
2021-11-04 17:09                                                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-04 22:46                                                                                                               ` John Yates
2021-11-04 22:48                                                                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-04 22:53                                                                                                                   ` John Yates
2021-11-05  2:25                                                                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-05 12:21                                                                                                                       ` John Yates
2021-11-05 13:45                                                                                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-06 13:52                                                                                                                           ` John Yates [this message]
2021-11-05  3:57                                                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05  5:41                                                                                                                 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-06  3:20                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-02 12:10                                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-11-04  2:36                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-02 16:22                                                                                                       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-04  2:33                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-04  8:53                                                                                                           ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-05  6:08                                                                                                             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-05  8:56                                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-05  9:13                                                                                                                 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-05 10:03                                                                                                                   ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-05 11:04                                                                                                                     ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-05 12:02                                                                                                                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-06  3:20                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05  5:32                                                                                                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-07  4:25                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-07  4:48                                                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2021-11-08 23:50                                                                                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-11-10  4:35                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-10 14:53                                                                                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-10 17:24                                                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2021-11-13  4:10                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-13 18:47                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2021-11-16  4:05                                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-16  6:21                                                                                                                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18  3:52                                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-18  5:01                                                                                                                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 14:10                                                                                                                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 14:59                                                                                                                           ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 15:22                                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-18 15:39                                                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 16:50                                                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-18 15:32                                                                                                                             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 16:20                                                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 16:53                                                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-18 21:13                                                                                                                                 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 11:05                                                                                                                       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 11:31                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-19  4:44                                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-19  6:05                                                                                                                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-19  6:53                                                                                                                             ` Po Lu
2021-11-19  7:40                                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-19 11:33                                                                                                                               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-19 12:43                                                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-19 12:48                                                                                                                                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-16 16:25                                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-11-10 17:24                                                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-10-17 19:55                                                     ` Moving kbd to subr.el Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-17 21:20                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18  6:02                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 12:46                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 13:15                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 13:50                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 15:50                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 16:03                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 13:53                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-18 13:59                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 14:44                                                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-18 15:34                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-18 15:53                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2021-10-18 15:53                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 15:58                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 16:33                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 20:40                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-18 22:26                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-19  2:31                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-19  2:30                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19  7:02                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-19  7:48                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 10:46                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-19 13:08                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 14:48                                                                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-19 17:10                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 17:51                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-10-19 18:06                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-10-20 22:34                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20 22:34                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-22  3:29                                                                           ` Po Lu
2021-10-19 12:34                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-19 13:38                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 13:57                                                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 14:07                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 14:13                                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 14:16                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 14:25                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 14:31                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 15:03                                                                                       ` Robert Pluim
2021-10-19 14:56                                                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-19 14:45                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-19 15:09                                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 19:07                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 19:00                                                                                     ` Howard Melman
2021-10-19 20:53                                                                                     ` T.V Raman
2021-10-19 20:59                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 21:50                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-20 22:37                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-21  2:54                                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-20  1:54                                                                                         ` T.V Raman
2021-10-19 14:00                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-19 14:03                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 16:05                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 17:43                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 18:54                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-25 14:22                                                                             ` Making a key undefined again Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-25 14:30                                                                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-25 14:37                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-25 17:31                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-25 17:48                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-25 22:49                                                                                 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-25 22:59                                                                                   ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-25 23:10                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-25 23:27                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-26 16:11                                                                                     ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-26 19:33                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 16:01                                                                 ` Moving kbd to subr.el Juri Linkov
2021-10-18 16:27                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19  3:08                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18  1:41                                                       ` T.V Raman
2021-10-18 11:40                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  7:27                         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 11:33                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 11:53                             ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 12:08                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 12:24                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 13:10                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 13:55                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14 14:05                                       ` dick
2021-10-14 14:15                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14 14:31                                           ` dick
2021-10-14 14:33                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 14:36                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 12:36                     ` Representing key sequences (was: master 859190f 2/3: Convert some keymaps to defvar-keymap) Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 13:17                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 16:28                         ` Representing key sequences Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 23:48                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 14:12                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 14:40                         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-13  8:54               ` master 859190f 2/3: Convert some keymaps to defvar-keymap Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 11:15                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 12:25                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 12:59                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 12:55                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:05                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 13:34                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 14:28                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 14:30                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 14:52                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 15:32                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 15:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 16:07                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 19:01                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 21:53                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 22:55                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14  7:29                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  6:48                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  7:41                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 12:07                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 12:09                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 12:27                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 12:30                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 12:58                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:28                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 13:31                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:36                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 13:41                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:42                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 13:53                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:59                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 14:14                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 19:07                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 19:13                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 19:32                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 20:01                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:04                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-14 20:17                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 20:35                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:43                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:58                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 21:02                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 21:10                                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 21:58                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-16 17:07                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 20:59                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-14 21:11                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 19:31                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 19:54                                             ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 19:59                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 22:22                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 22:37             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 19:28           ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-12 20:10             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 14:22     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 22:36       ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-14  7:25         ` Eli Zaretskii

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