* Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring'. [not found] <E1VAAWJ-0007pJ-65@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> @ 2013-08-16 3:53 ` Stefan Monnier 2013-08-16 6:19 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2013-08-16 3:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Xue Fuqiao; +Cc: emacs-devel > +into the current buffer before point. The text inserted is the region > +between @var{start} (inclusive) and @var{end} (exclusive). (These That is misleading: buffer positions are *between* characters (or alternatively, characters are placed *between* buffer positions). Talking about "inclusive" and "exclusive" here makes it sound like buffer positions are placed *on* characters. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring'. 2013-08-16 3:53 ` [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring' Stefan Monnier @ 2013-08-16 6:19 ` Eli Zaretskii 2013-08-16 16:20 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-08-16 6:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: xfq.free, emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 23:53:49 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > +into the current buffer before point. The text inserted is the region > > +between @var{start} (inclusive) and @var{end} (exclusive). (These > > That is misleading: buffer positions are *between* characters (or > alternatively, characters are placed *between* buffer positions). > Talking about "inclusive" and "exclusive" here makes it sound like > buffer positions are placed *on* characters. Are you saying that characters don't have positions? We say "character at POSITION", and we mean that. What is misleading here? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring'. 2013-08-16 6:19 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-08-16 16:20 ` Stefan Monnier 2013-08-16 18:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2013-08-16 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: xfq.free, emacs-devel > Are you saying that characters don't have positions? Obviously not. > We say "character at POSITION", and we mean that. We do say that at times, but note that the functions we provide have names like `char-after' and `char-before'. The naming was sometimes poorly chosen (e.g. `text-properties-at'), so we're not completely consistent here. > What is misleading here? That saying explicitly "inclusive" and "exclusive" means that using "at" is not just an abuse of language but is really how things should be understood. If we want to be more explicit, then rather than using "inclusive" and "exclusive", I'd rather we add a blurb like "Remember that positions are /between/ characters, so the char right \"at\" END will not be included". Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring'. 2013-08-16 16:20 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2013-08-16 18:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2013-08-17 22:27 ` Xue Fuqiao 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-08-16 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: xfq.free, emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> > Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:20:02 -0400 > > If we want to be more explicit, then rather than using "inclusive" and > "exclusive", I'd rather we add a blurb like "Remember that positions are > /between/ characters, so the char right \"at\" END will not be included". What's the difference? Both say that character at END will be excluded. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring'. 2013-08-16 18:43 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-08-17 22:27 ` Xue Fuqiao 2013-08-18 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Xue Fuqiao @ 2013-08-17 22:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Stefan Monnier, emacs-devel This rule applies to all functions that use the region. More generally, it applies all functions that use BEG and END if they are buffer positions. Since there are too many functions, IMO a better approach is remove them ("inclusive" and "exclusive") from their own documentation and add a blurb like Stefan said in a node like (info "(elisp) The Region"). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring'. 2013-08-17 22:27 ` Xue Fuqiao @ 2013-08-18 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-08-18 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Xue Fuqiao; +Cc: monnier, emacs-devel > Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 06:27:25 +0800 > From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> > Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org> > > This rule applies to all functions that use the region. More generally, > it applies all functions that use BEG and END if they are buffer positions. > > Since there are too many functions, IMO a better approach is remove them > ("inclusive" and "exclusive") from their own documentation and add a > blurb like Stefan said in a node like (info "(elisp) The Region"). Like I said, I don't see anything wrong with "inclusive" and "exclusive". But if you want a good place to add such a blurb, do that in the preamble in the node "Text", which already tries to say something along these lines. By contrast, "The Region" is only about the region between mark and point, which is not entirely relevant to the functions that accept BEG and END as arguments, because these arguments don't have to come from the region limits. Btw, this rule applies to string positions as well, I think. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2013-08-18 19:30 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
[not found] <E1VAAWJ-0007pJ-65@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
2013-08-16 3:53 ` [Emacs-diffs] trunk r113909: Refine the documentation of `insert-buffer-substring' Stefan Monnier
2013-08-16 6:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-08-16 16:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-08-16 18:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-08-17 22:27 ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-08-18 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).