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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Random832 <random832@fastmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: ASCII-only startup message?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 02:09:03 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9275c9dd-8a96-4011-8f43-817009103ea1@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2h9j3xgrb.fsf@fastmail.com>

> > So as the only demonstration of your claim that this character is
> > not maintained in Unicode for compatibility between "apostrophe"
> > and "right single quotation mark", you offer the statement that
> > the name is wrong.
> 
> Drew Adams writes:
> > These are (should be) different animals and
> > they need not always have the same glyphs.
> 
> As long as we're on the subject of whose claims are assertions without
> evidence, can you produce a single example of a system that actually
> supported using different glyphs for these (apart from the typewriter
> glyph, which isn't typographically appropriate for anything), and what
> those glyphs might have looked like?

I never made such a claim.

Not only have I not said that the glyphs need to be different
or have been different, I have explicitly said that the glyphs
can be the same even when the uses are different.  They could
be (yes it's a choice) considered different characters based on
their different uses, and not on their different appearances.

What I have said is that an apostrophe is not a quotation mark.
They have different jobs.  An apostrophe is used within a word.
Quotation marks are used around/between words.

Here is one linguist's interesting take, BTW: the apostrophe
is the 27th English letter!

  The apostrophe is not a punctuation mark. It doesn't punctuate.
  Punctuation marks are placed between units (sentences, clauses,
  phrases, words, morphemes) to signal structure, boundaries, or
  pauses. The apostrophe appears within words. It's a 27th letter
  of the alphabet. This issue concerns spelling.
  http://chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/2013/03/22/being-an-apostrophe/
  and http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2664

> And, lest we get off the subject, The reason not to use U+2019 or any
> other non-ASCII character in the default scratch buffer text is because
> the user may not be able to save it, not because the ASCII one is more
> typographically or semantically appropriate.

That is part of the argument I made more generally for ' (U+0027):
ease of use by users of a text editor and programming environment.

I am not the one arguing that it should be used because it is
more beautiful (though I don't personally think it is less
beautiful, in the default fonts and the fonts I use).  Relative
beauty was given as a reason only by those in favor of U+2019.

I've been pretty clear that the reason to use it is to make
life easier for users - in several ways.



  reply	other threads:[~2015-12-28 10:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-12-26 17:25 ASCII-only startup message? Paul Eggert
2015-12-26 18:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-26 18:41   ` Random832
2015-12-26 18:50     ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-26 19:11       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-26 19:01     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-26 18:45   ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-26 19:10     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-26 19:40       ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-26 20:50         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-26 23:28           ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-27  0:17             ` Drew Adams
2015-12-27  1:03               ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-12-27  2:51                 ` Drew Adams
2015-12-27  1:09               ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-27 15:56                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27 18:45                   ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-27  6:58               ` Random832
2015-12-27 14:17                 ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-27 14:55                   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-27 16:35                     ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-27 17:42                       ` Drew Adams
2015-12-27 19:27                         ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-27 22:47                           ` Drew Adams
2015-12-27 23:45                             ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-28  2:01                               ` Drew Adams
2015-12-28  5:51                                 ` Random832
2015-12-28 10:09                                   ` Drew Adams [this message]
2015-12-28  6:05                                 ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-28 10:13                                   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-28  9:12                                 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-12-28 10:15                                   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-28 14:59                                     ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-12-28 18:39                                       ` Drew Adams
2015-12-28  9:37                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-28 10:16                               ` Drew Adams
2015-12-29  7:05                                 ` Random832
2015-12-29  8:01                                   ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-29 14:38                                     ` Random832
2015-12-29 15:58                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-29 17:05                                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-29 18:00                                       ` Drew Adams
2015-12-29 18:16                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-29 19:24                                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-29 15:55                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-29 17:40                                   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-28 16:31                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27  3:44             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-27  8:12               ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-12-28 20:04               ` John Wiegley
2015-12-29  6:50                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-29 16:55                   ` John Wiegley
2015-12-29 17:30                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-29 18:18                       ` Drew Adams
2016-01-01 13:29                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-01-01 17:48                         ` John Wiegley
2016-01-01 17:50                           ` John Wiegley
2016-01-02  8:14                           ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-29 15:05                 ` Random832
2015-12-29 16:49                   ` John Wiegley
     [not found]                 ` <<n5u7gn$6vh$1@ger.gmane.org>
2015-12-29 17:46                   ` Drew Adams
     [not found] <<567ECD8C.1070408@cs.ucla.edu>

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