can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?

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* can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
@ 2011-03-15 16:38 Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-15 17:40 ` Chong Yidong
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

After some discussion on the Gnus mailing list we wanted to propose that
Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker.  Rationale:

1) the current Gnus bug reporting setup doesn't work well and is not
highly visible

2) the Emacs bug tracker has better functionality

3) people already report Gnus bugs to Emacs since it's part of Emacs

This would involve changes to `M-x gnus-bug' and the Gnus manual.

This will get fun when XEmacs users report bugs against Emacs+Gnus for
XEmacs compatibility.  So maybe for them we can set up a special bug
category, passed to the bug tracker in the subject or in the headers.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 16:38 can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker? Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-15 17:40 ` Chong Yidong
  2011-03-15 18:27   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-15 19:32   ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-15 19:08 ` Stefan Monnier
  2011-03-15 19:23 ` Glenn Morris
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2011-03-15 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> 1) the current Gnus bug reporting setup doesn't work well and is not
> highly visible
>
> 2) the Emacs bug tracker has better functionality
>
> 3) people already report Gnus bugs to Emacs since it's part of Emacs
>
> This would involve changes to `M-x gnus-bug' and the Gnus manual.

I don't think such a change would involve changes to gnus-bug.  Have you
read the "Using the GNU Bug Tracker" page that Glenn Morris wrote?

  http://debbugs.gnu.org/Using.html

As explained there, the usual way to use the Emacs bug tracker is for it
to take over bugs@gnus.org.

One problem, though, is that up to now we've only ever set up the bug
tracker for @gnu.org mailing lists.  ISTR that the list traffic is
redirected to debbugs.gnu.org simply via a rule in the FSF mail server,
which might not work for handling a non-gnu.org list.  Glenn, do you
recall the details?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 17:40 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2011-03-15 18:27   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-15 19:32   ` Glenn Morris
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 18:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:40:13 -0400 Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> wrote: 

CY> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> This would involve changes to `M-x gnus-bug' and the Gnus manual.

CY> I don't think such a change would involve changes to gnus-bug.  

Well, if the tracker wanted to have extra information in the message
headers...  I thought it would be necessary.

CY> Have you read the "Using the GNU Bug Tracker" page that Glenn Morris
CY> wrote?

CY>   http://debbugs.gnu.org/Using.html

CY> As explained there, the usual way to use the Emacs bug tracker is for it
CY> to take over bugs@gnus.org.

Thank you for the reference, I had not seen it.

It seems the alias list on the bug tracker needs to be updated but
otherwise this can be pretty seamless on both sides, besides the
potential problem below.

CY> One problem, though, is that up to now we've only ever set up the bug
CY> tracker for @gnu.org mailing lists.  ISTR that the list traffic is
CY> redirected to debbugs.gnu.org simply via a rule in the FSF mail server,
CY> which might not work for handling a non-gnu.org list.  Glenn, do you
CY> recall the details?

On the Gnus side we can change the bugs@gnus.org alias as needed, of course.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 17:40 ` Chong Yidong
  2011-03-15 18:27   ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-15 19:32   ` Glenn Morris
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-03-15 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: Ted Zlatanov, ding, emacs-devel

Chong Yidong wrote:

> One problem, though, is that up to now we've only ever set up the bug
> tracker for @gnu.org mailing lists.  ISTR that the list traffic is
> redirected to debbugs.gnu.org simply via a rule in the FSF mail server,
> which might not work for handling a non-gnu.org list.  Glenn, do you
> recall the details?

As I try to explain on http://debbugs.gnu.org/Using.html, these kinds of
changes are not essential to be able to use debbugs, but I wrote the
technical details in admin/notes/bugtracker.

It requires a mail router rule. A simple alias will not suffice, and
would probably cause an infinite loop. An equivalent router rule would
have to be implemented by whoever controls gnus.org mail.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 16:38 can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker? Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-15 17:40 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2011-03-15 19:08 ` Stefan Monnier
  2011-03-15 19:23 ` Glenn Morris
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-15 19:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel

> After some discussion on the Gnus mailing list we wanted to propose that
> Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker.

Sounds like a good idea.


        Stefan



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 16:38 can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker? Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-15 17:40 ` Chong Yidong
  2011-03-15 19:08 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2011-03-15 19:23 ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-15 19:41   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
                     ` (2 more replies)
  2 siblings, 3 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-03-15 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov wrote:

> After some discussion on the Gnus mailing list we wanted to propose that
> Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker.  Rationale:
>
> 1) the current Gnus bug reporting setup doesn't work well and is not
> highly visible

I guess it's not that visible because the address it goes to does not
seem to be a public mailing list, for some reason. (I assumed that was
by choice.)

> 2) the Emacs bug tracker has better functionality
>
> 3) people already report Gnus bugs to Emacs since it's part of Emacs
>
> This would involve changes to `M-x gnus-bug' and the Gnus manual.
>
> This will get fun when XEmacs users report bugs against Emacs+Gnus for
> XEmacs compatibility.  So maybe for them we can set up a special bug
> category, passed to the bug tracker in the subject or in the headers.

XEmacs also has a bug tracker IIUC, so you could make reports from
XEmacs go there instead. ;)

That's not a complete solution though, because Gnus also supports older
Emacs releases, and we don't want those reports to go to the
bug-gnu-emacs list...

Anyway, to some extent you can do this already.
For some time, "gnus" has existed as debbugs.gnu.org package, with a
maintainer address of bugs@gnus.org. This is why you will see numbered
bug mail from debbugs.gnu.org appearing at that address: either someone
reported a bug against the gnus package, or, more commonly, I reassigned
it from "emacs" to "emacs,gnus", so that subsequent mails go to both
addresses.

So really all that is needed is to use "Package: gnus" in the first line
of a mail to submit@debbugs. Using "Package: emacs,gnus" causes both
bugs@gnus.org and bug-gnu-emacs to get mails. You can do this today with
zero other changes required.

With regards to making it more "official", personally I hesitate a bit.
debbugs.gnu.org is a GNU machine and the set-up is intended for GNU
projects. Do you regard Gnus as a GNU project? GNU Gnus? I know Gnus is
part of Emacs, but eg

http://www.gnu.org/software/gnus

does not exist, and I don't seem to find a statement on
http://www.gnus.org/. There don't seem to be any mentions in the Gnus
manual either. Stand-alone Gnus is not distributed on ftp.gnu.org. Etc,
etc.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 19:23 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2011-03-15 19:41   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-15 19:47   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-15 20:31   ` Chong Yidong
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 19:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> With regards to making it more "official", personally I hesitate a bit.
> debbugs.gnu.org is a GNU machine and the set-up is intended for GNU
> projects. Do you regard Gnus as a GNU project? GNU Gnus? I know Gnus is
> part of Emacs, but egg
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnus
>
> does not exist, and I don't seem to find a statement on
> http://www.gnus.org/.

I've always thought of Gnus as a part of Emacs, and therefore a GNU
project.  I've never been sure what the GNU project people thought,
though.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 19:23 ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-15 19:41   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2011-03-15 19:47   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-15 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-15 20:31   ` Chong Yidong
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-15 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:23:56 -0400 Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: 

GM> Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>> After some discussion on the Gnus mailing list we wanted to propose that
>> Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker.  Rationale:
...
>> This will get fun when XEmacs users report bugs against Emacs+Gnus for
>> XEmacs compatibility.  So maybe for them we can set up a special bug
>> category, passed to the bug tracker in the subject or in the headers.

GM> That's not a complete solution though, because Gnus also supports older
GM> Emacs releases, and we don't want those reports to go to the
GM> bug-gnu-emacs list...

There was a point where Gnus was merged into Emacs.  Do we want that to
be the separation point?  Or do we want all non-trunk reports to go to
Gnus only?  I'm not sure.

GM> Anyway, to some extent you can do this already.
GM> For some time, "gnus" has existed as debbugs.gnu.org package, with a
GM> maintainer address of bugs@gnus.org. This is why you will see numbered
GM> bug mail from debbugs.gnu.org appearing at that address: either someone
GM> reported a bug against the gnus package, or, more commonly, I reassigned
GM> it from "emacs" to "emacs,gnus", so that subsequent mails go to both
GM> addresses.

I wondered how that worked.  Thank you for the help.

GM> So really all that is needed is to use "Package: gnus" in the first line
GM> of a mail to submit@debbugs. Using "Package: emacs,gnus" causes both
GM> bugs@gnus.org and bug-gnu-emacs to get mails. You can do this today with
GM> zero other changes required.

We can change `gnus-bug' to add the Package line according to the
version logic from above.

GM> With regards to making it more "official", personally I hesitate a bit.
GM> debbugs.gnu.org is a GNU machine and the set-up is intended for GNU
GM> projects. Do you regard Gnus as a GNU project? GNU Gnus? I know Gnus is
GM> part of Emacs, but eg

GM> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnus

GM> does not exist, and I don't seem to find a statement on
GM> http://www.gnus.org/. There don't seem to be any mentions in the Gnus
GM> manual either. Stand-alone Gnus is not distributed on ftp.gnu.org. Etc,
GM> etc.

Sorry, I don't know the answers to those questions.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 19:47   ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-15 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-16 14:00       ` Ted Zlatanov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-03-15 23:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: emacs-devel, ding

Ted Zlatanov wrote:

> There was a point where Gnus was merged into Emacs.  Do we want that to
> be the separation point?  Or do we want all non-trunk reports to go to
> Gnus only?  I'm not sure.

IMO, if someone is using the version of Gnus that came with their Emacs,
they should send bug reports to bug-gnu-emacs. If not, ie if they
downloaded a separate version of Gnus, then to bugs@gnus.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
@ 2011-03-16 14:00       ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-16 15:41         ` Stefan Monnier
  2011-03-16 17:32         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-16 14:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 19:27:00 -0400 Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: 

GM> Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>> There was a point where Gnus was merged into Emacs.  Do we want that to
>> be the separation point?  Or do we want all non-trunk reports to go to
>> Gnus only?  I'm not sure.

GM> IMO, if someone is using the version of Gnus that came with their Emacs,
GM> they should send bug reports to bug-gnu-emacs. If not, ie if they
GM> downloaded a separate version of Gnus, then to bugs@gnus.

Oh, that makes perfect sense.  So in the Gnus trunk we'll set 
`M-x gnus-bug' to send to bugs@gnus.org and insert "Package: gnus".  But
in the Emacs trunk the same command will send to bug-gnu-emacs and
insert "Package: emacs,gnus".  Is that correct?

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 14:00       ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-16 15:41         ` Stefan Monnier
  2011-03-16 15:58           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-16 17:32         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-16 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel

>>> There was a point where Gnus was merged into Emacs.  Do we want that to
>>> be the separation point?  Or do we want all non-trunk reports to go to
>>> Gnus only?  I'm not sure.

GM> IMO, if someone is using the version of Gnus that came with their Emacs,
GM> they should send bug reports to bug-gnu-emacs. If not, ie if they
GM> downloaded a separate version of Gnus, then to bugs@gnus.

> Oh, that makes perfect sense.  So in the Gnus trunk we'll set 
> `M-x gnus-bug' to send to bugs@gnus.org and insert "Package: gnus".  But
> in the Emacs trunk the same command will send to bug-gnu-emacs and
> insert "Package: emacs,gnus".  Is that correct?

Sounds fine to me.
I'm also OK with sending ll to bug-gnu-emacs (and maybe distinguishing
the two by using either "gnus" or "emacs,gnus" as package).


        Stefan



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 15:41         ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2011-03-16 15:58           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-16 17:51             ` Glenn Morris
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-16 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 11:41:44 -0400 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: 

>>>> There was a point where Gnus was merged into Emacs.  Do we want that to
>>>> be the separation point?  Or do we want all non-trunk reports to go to
>>>> Gnus only?  I'm not sure.

GM> IMO, if someone is using the version of Gnus that came with their Emacs,
GM> they should send bug reports to bug-gnu-emacs. If not, ie if they
GM> downloaded a separate version of Gnus, then to bugs@gnus.

>> Oh, that makes perfect sense.  So in the Gnus trunk we'll set 
>> `M-x gnus-bug' to send to bugs@gnus.org and insert "Package: gnus".  But
>> in the Emacs trunk the same command will send to bug-gnu-emacs and
>> insert "Package: emacs,gnus".  Is that correct?

SM> Sounds fine to me.
SM> I'm also OK with sending ll to bug-gnu-emacs (and maybe distinguishing
SM> the two by using either "gnus" or "emacs,gnus" as package).

Glenn, is Stefan's suggestion easier to implement (I would guess so)?

I'm OK with either approach as well.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 15:58           ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-16 17:51             ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-16 17:55               ` Glenn Morris
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-03-16 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: emacs-devel, ding

Ted Zlatanov wrote:

>>> Oh, that makes perfect sense.  So in the Gnus trunk we'll set 
>>> `M-x gnus-bug' to send to bugs@gnus.org and insert "Package: gnus".

You'd need a router rule (or something) so that bugs@gnus.org sent mail
on to debbugs.

> SM> Sounds fine to me.
> SM> I'm also OK with sending ll to bug-gnu-emacs (and maybe distinguishing
> SM> the two by using either "gnus" or "emacs,gnus" as package).
>
> Glenn, is Stefan's suggestion easier to implement (I would guess so)?

Yes, I suggest you make M-x gnus-bug always send mail to bug-gnu-emacs.
The only difference should be that in standalone Gnus, you add a line
"Package: gnus" at the start of the body, whereas in Emacs you add
"Package: emacs,gnus".



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 17:51             ` Glenn Morris
@ 2011-03-16 17:55               ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-16 19:41                 ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-03-16 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov, Emacs developers, Gnus

Glenn Morris wrote (on Wed, 16 Mar 2011 at 13:51 -0400):

> Yes, I suggest you make M-x gnus-bug always send mail to bug-gnu-emacs.
> The only difference should be that in standalone Gnus, you add a line
> "Package: gnus" at the start of the body, whereas in Emacs you add
> "Package: emacs,gnus".

The only difficulty is you need to document that bug reports will end
up at different addresses based on the package line. Maybe it's better
to send the mail to submit@debbugs rather than bug-gnu-emacs. It
doesn't affect how anything works, but it might make people a bit less
likely to say "why isn't my report showing up on bug-gnu-emacs?"

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 17:55               ` Glenn Morris
@ 2011-03-16 19:41                 ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2011-03-16 19:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: Ted Zlatanov, Emacs developers, Gnus

> Maybe it's better to send the mail to submit@debbugs

Oh, yes, right: very much so.


        Stefan



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 14:00       ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-16 15:41         ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2011-03-16 17:32         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-16 18:44           ` Ted Zlatanov
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-16 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Oh, that makes perfect sense.  So in the Gnus trunk we'll set 
> `M-x gnus-bug' to send to bugs@gnus.org and insert "Package: gnus".  But
> in the Emacs trunk the same command will send to bug-gnu-emacs and
> insert "Package: emacs,gnus".  Is that correct?

Or perhaps we could just remove `M-x gnus-bug' from the version in the
trunk, and tell people to report the bugs the normal way?
Alternatively, define `M-x gnus-bug' as an alias to `M-x
report-emacs-bugs'.  Perhaps with the extra package thing?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 17:32         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2011-03-16 18:44           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-17 16:52             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-16 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:32:14 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Or perhaps we could just remove `M-x gnus-bug' from the version in the
LMI> trunk, and tell people to report the bugs the normal way?
LMI> Alternatively, define `M-x gnus-bug' as an alias to `M-x
LMI> report-emacs-bugs'.  Perhaps with the extra package thing?

I think the second way is better, yes, so we can customize `gnus-bug'
as needed.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:55:33 -0400 Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: 

GM> Glenn Morris wrote (on Wed, 16 Mar 2011 at 13:51 -0400):

>> Yes, I suggest you make M-x gnus-bug always send mail to bug-gnu-emacs.
>> The only difference should be that in standalone Gnus, you add a line
>> "Package: gnus" at the start of the body, whereas in Emacs you add
>> "Package: emacs,gnus".

GM> The only difficulty is you need to document that bug reports will end
GM> up at different addresses based on the package line. Maybe it's better
GM> to send the mail to submit@debbugs rather than bug-gnu-emacs. It
GM> doesn't affect how anything works, but it might make people a bit less
GM> likely to say "why isn't my report showing up on bug-gnu-emacs?"

So M-x gnus-bug will: 1) send to submit@debbugs, and 2) set the Package
to either "gnus" in a Gnus checkout, or "emacs,gnus" in a trunk
checkout.  No mail server reconfiguration will be necessary.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-16 18:44           ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-17 16:52             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-17 17:27               ` Ted Zlatanov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-17 16:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> So M-x gnus-bug will: 1) send to submit@debbugs, and 2) set the Package
> to either "gnus" in a Gnus checkout, or "emacs,gnus" in a trunk
> checkout.  No mail server reconfiguration will be necessary.

Sounds good to me.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-17 16:52             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2011-03-17 17:27               ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-17 17:40                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-17 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 880 bytes --]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:52:30 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> So M-x gnus-bug will: 1) send to submit@debbugs, and 2) set the Package
>> to either "gnus" in a Gnus checkout, or "emacs,gnus" in a trunk
>> checkout.  No mail server reconfiguration will be necessary.

LMI> Sounds good to me.

New look:

 To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)
 Subject: 
 From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
 --text follows this line--
 Package: gnus
 No Gnus v0.14
...

where the package comes from the new defconst in gnus.el:

(defconst gnus-bug-package
  "gnus"
  "The package to use in the bug submission.")

which can be overridden in Emacs trunk or derived in some other way (I
think it's better to handle it as a VCS merge issue than to try to write
code to guess).  Simple patch follows.

Ted


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: gnus-debbugs.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 1127 bytes --]

diff --git a/lisp/gnus-msg.el b/lisp/gnus-msg.el
index 093eec3..053a9e4 100644
--- a/lisp/gnus-msg.el
+++ b/lisp/gnus-msg.el
@@ -1450,6 +1450,7 @@ If YANK is non-nil, include the original article."
     (goto-char (point-min))
     (re-search-forward (concat "^" (regexp-quote mail-header-separator) "$"))
     (forward-line 1)
+    (insert (format "Package: %s\n" gnus-bug-package))
     (insert (gnus-version) "\n"
 	    (emacs-version) "\n")
     (when (and (boundp 'nntp-server-type)
diff --git a/lisp/gnus.el b/lisp/gnus.el
index 6c48a11..29080fe 100644
--- a/lisp/gnus.el
+++ b/lisp/gnus.el
@@ -2632,9 +2632,13 @@ such as a mark that says whether an article is stored in the cache
 (defvar gnus-have-read-active-file nil)
 
 (defconst gnus-maintainer
-  "bugs@gnus.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)"
+  "submit@debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)"
   "The mail address of the Gnus maintainers.")
 
+(defconst gnus-bug-package
+  "gnus"
+  "The package to use in the bug submission.")
+
 (defvar gnus-info-nodes
   '((gnus-group-mode "(gnus)Group Buffer")
     (gnus-summary-mode "(gnus)Summary Buffer")

^ permalink raw reply related	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-17 17:27               ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-17 17:40                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-17 17:50                   ` Glenn Morris
                                     ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-17 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> New look:
>
>  To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)
>  Subject: 
>  From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
>  --text follows this line--
>  Package: gnus
>  No Gnus v0.14

I think the Gnus variable snarfer and stuff should just be removed, and
gnus-bug should just be a shim over report-emacs-bugs.  The variables
that are picked out can be somewhat sensitive, and not all that useful.
The standard report-emacs-bugs data is more useful, I think.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-17 17:40                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2011-03-17 17:50                   ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-17 17:53                     ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-18  8:33                     ` Reiner Steib
  2011-03-17 19:12                   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-06-28 15:33                   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-03-17 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel


>>  --text follows this line--
>>  Package: gnus
>>  No Gnus v0.14

You can also specify a "Version: " pseudo-header, which can be useful.
Though probably not very useful with a non-numeric version like "No Gnus
v0.14".



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-17 17:50                   ` Glenn Morris
@ 2011-03-17 17:53                     ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-18  8:33                     ` Reiner Steib
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2011-03-17 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel


BTW, I seem to have replied to a message with a faulty MFT header,
unless the intent was to drop ding from this discussion, which seems
odd.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-17 17:50                   ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-17 17:53                     ` Glenn Morris
@ 2011-03-18  8:33                     ` Reiner Steib
  2011-03-18 13:04                       ` Ted Zlatanov
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2011-03-18  8:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding, emacs-devel; +Cc: Glenn Morris

On Thu, Mar 17 2011, Glenn Morris wrote:

>>>  --text follows this line--
>>>  Package: gnus
>>>  No Gnus v0.14
>
> You can also specify a "Version: " pseudo-header, which can be useful.
> Though probably not very useful with a non-numeric version like "No Gnus
> v0.14".

(gnus-continuum-version) gives the numerical version.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-18  8:33                     ` Reiner Steib
@ 2011-03-18 13:04                       ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-03-29 18:53                         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-18 13:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 09:33:32 +0100 Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote: 

RS> On Thu, Mar 17 2011, Glenn Morris wrote:
>>>> --text follows this line--
>>>> Package: gnus
>>>> No Gnus v0.14
>> 
>> You can also specify a "Version: " pseudo-header, which can be useful.
>> Though probably not very useful with a non-numeric version like "No Gnus
>> v0.14".

RS> (gnus-continuum-version) gives the numerical version.

Assuming I make that change (adding it to the body prepend data passed
to `emacs-report-bug'), are there any other concerns with the patch I
posted to modify `gnus-bug'?

Thanks
Ted




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-18 13:04                       ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-29 18:53                         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-29 19:09                           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-06-28 15:31                           ` Ted Zlatanov
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-29 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Assuming I make that change (adding it to the body prepend data passed
> to `emacs-report-bug'), are there any other concerns with the patch I
> posted to modify `gnus-bug'?

I don't think so...  Just apply it (to git Gnus) and we'll see whether
any issues pop up.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-29 18:53                         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2011-03-29 19:09                           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-06-28 15:31                           ` Ted Zlatanov
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-29 19:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:53:38 +0200 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> Assuming I make that change (adding it to the body prepend data passed
>> to `emacs-report-bug'), are there any other concerns with the patch I
>> posted to modify `gnus-bug'?

LMI> I don't think so...  Just apply it (to git Gnus) and we'll see whether
LMI> any issues pop up.

Dude, we're possibly breaking bug reports...  I would be especially wary
if issues *don't* pop up :)

Ted




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-29 18:53                         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-29 19:09                           ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-06-28 15:31                           ` Ted Zlatanov
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-06-28 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:53:38 +0200 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> Assuming I make that change (adding it to the body prepend data passed
>> to `emacs-report-bug'), are there any other concerns with the patch I
>> posted to modify `gnus-bug'?

LMI> I don't think so...  Just apply it (to git Gnus) and we'll see whether
LMI> any issues pop up.

Finally, this is done.

Ted




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-17 17:40                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-17 17:50                   ` Glenn Morris
@ 2011-03-17 19:12                   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2011-06-28 15:33                   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-03-17 19:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 856 bytes --]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:40:51 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> I think the Gnus variable snarfer and stuff should just be removed, and
LMI> gnus-bug should just be a shim over report-emacs-bugs.  The variables
LMI> that are picked out can be somewhat sensitive, and not all that useful.
LMI> The standard report-emacs-bugs data is more useful, I think.

OK.  Patch attached, although I didn't remove all the cruft related to
`gnus-bug' from gnus-msg.el or elsewhere.  The patch is against the
Emacs trunk because it modifies `report-emacs-bug' a little bit.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:50:06 -0400 Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: 

GM> You can also specify a "Version: " pseudo-header, which can be useful.
GM> Though probably not very useful with a non-numeric version like "No Gnus
GM> v0.14".

I'm not sure either.  Lars?

Ted


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: gnus-debbugs.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 3183 bytes --]

=== modified file 'lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el'
--- lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el	2011-02-23 13:35:35 +0000
+++ lisp/gnus/gnus-msg.el	2011-03-17 19:09:20 +0000
@@ -1429,42 +1429,15 @@
 	(gnus-inews-yank-articles (list (cdr gnus-article-current)))))))
 
 (defvar nntp-server-type)
-(defun gnus-bug ()
+(defun gnus-bug (topic &optional recent-keys)
   "Send a bug report to the Gnus maintainers."
-  (interactive)
+  (interactive (reverse (list (recent-keys) (read-string "Bug Subject: "))))
   (unless (gnus-alive-p)
     (error "Gnus has been shut down"))
-  (gnus-setup-message (if (message-mail-user-agent) 'message 'bug)
-    (unless (message-mail-user-agent)
-      (delete-other-windows)
-      (when gnus-bug-create-help-buffer
-	(switch-to-buffer "*Gnus Help Bug*")
-	(erase-buffer)
-	(insert gnus-bug-message)
-	(goto-char (point-min)))
-      (message-pop-to-buffer "*Gnus Bug*"))
-    (let ((message-this-is-mail t))
-      (message-setup `((To . ,gnus-maintainer) (Subject . ""))))
-    (when gnus-bug-create-help-buffer
-      (push `(gnus-bug-kill-buffer) message-send-actions))
-    (goto-char (point-min))
-    (re-search-forward (concat "^" (regexp-quote mail-header-separator) "$"))
-    (forward-line 1)
-    (insert (gnus-version) "\n"
-	    (emacs-version) "\n")
-    (when (and (boundp 'nntp-server-type)
-	       (stringp nntp-server-type))
-      (insert nntp-server-type))
-    (insert "\n\n\n\n\n")
-    (let (text)
-      (with-current-buffer (gnus-get-buffer-create " *gnus environment info*")
-	(erase-buffer)
-	(gnus-debug)
-	(setq text (buffer-string)))
-      (insert "<#part type=application/emacs-lisp disposition=inline description=\"User settings\">\n" text "\n<#/part>"))
-    (goto-char (point-min))
-    (search-forward "Subject: " nil t)
-    (message "")))
+  (let ((report-emacs-bug-address gnus-maintainer)
+        (report-emacs-bug-body-prepend
+         (format "Package: %s\n" gnus-bug-package)))
+    (report-emacs-bug topic recent-keys)))
 
 (defun gnus-bug-kill-buffer ()
   (when (get-buffer "*Gnus Help Bug*")

=== modified file 'lisp/gnus/gnus.el'
--- lisp/gnus/gnus.el	2011-03-06 02:43:19 +0000
+++ lisp/gnus/gnus.el	2011-03-17 19:08:27 +0000
@@ -2633,9 +2633,13 @@
 (defvar gnus-have-read-active-file nil)
 
 (defconst gnus-maintainer
-  "bugs@gnus.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)"
+  "submit@debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)"
   "The mail address of the Gnus maintainers.")
 
+(defconst gnus-bug-package
+  "gnus"
+  "The package to use in the bug submission.")
+
 (defvar gnus-info-nodes
   '((gnus-group-mode "(gnus)Group Buffer")
     (gnus-summary-mode "(gnus)Summary Buffer")

=== modified file 'lisp/mail/emacsbug.el'
--- lisp/mail/emacsbug.el	2011-02-06 15:04:31 +0000
+++ lisp/mail/emacsbug.el	2011-03-17 18:37:08 +0000
@@ -171,6 +171,8 @@
       (set (make-local-variable 'message-strip-special-text-properties) nil))
     (rfc822-goto-eoh)
     (forward-line 1)
+    (when (boundp 'report-emacs-bug-body-prepend)
+      (insert (symbol-value 'report-emacs-bug-body-prepend)))
     (let ((signature (buffer-substring (point) (point-max))))
       (delete-region (point) (point-max))
       (insert signature)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-17 17:40                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-17 17:50                   ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-17 19:12                   ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-06-28 15:33                   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-06-28 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:40:51 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> New look:
>> 
>> To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)
>> Subject: 
>> From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
>> --text follows this line--
>> Package: gnus
>> No Gnus v0.14

LMI> I think the Gnus variable snarfer and stuff should just be removed, and
LMI> gnus-bug should just be a shim over report-emacs-bugs.  The variables
LMI> that are picked out can be somewhat sensitive, and not all that useful.
LMI> The standard report-emacs-bugs data is more useful, I think.

I think if people are using `gnus-bug' and not `report-emacs-bug' they
probably have a problem with Gnus, so it makes sense to dig into their
Gnus settings.  Please change it as you see fit, though; I have no
strong feelings about this.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 19:23 ` Glenn Morris
  2011-03-15 19:41   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2011-03-15 19:47   ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2011-03-15 20:31   ` Chong Yidong
  2011-03-15 20:45     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2011-03-15 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: Ted Zlatanov, ding, emacs-devel

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> So really all that is needed is to use "Package: gnus" in the first
> line of a mail to submit@debbugs. Using "Package: emacs,gnus" causes
> both bugs@gnus.org and bug-gnu-emacs to get mails. You can do this
> today with zero other changes required.

This would be easier than trying to figure out the correct mail rules to
take over bug@gnus.org, indeed.

The disadvantage is that the Gnus project will get a mix of tracked and
untracked bugs, since many existing users would still report bugs to the
"unmanaged" bugs@gnus.org.

> With regards to making it more "official", personally I hesitate a
> bit.  debbugs.gnu.org is a GNU machine and the set-up is intended for
> GNU projects. Do you regard Gnus as a GNU project? GNU Gnus? I know
> Gnus is part of Emacs, but eg
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnus
>
> does not exist, and I don't seem to find a statement on
> http://www.gnus.org/. There don't seem to be any mentions in the Gnus
> manual either.

The VM was originally provided to us as a bug tracker for Emacs, not as
a GNU bug server; so as far as I'm concerned we have a broad mandate for
using it to manage Emacs-related bugs.  We can give the FSF a heads-up,
but frankly I don't see this issue being a problem.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker?
  2011-03-15 20:31   ` Chong Yidong
@ 2011-03-15 20:45     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-03-15 20:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding; +Cc: emacs-devel

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:

> The disadvantage is that the Gnus project will get a mix of tracked and
> untracked bugs, since many existing users would still report bugs to the
> "unmanaged" bugs@gnus.org.

That's the case today.  The main difference would be that there would
gradually be fewer untracked messages, which is nice.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2011-06-28 15:33 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 31+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2011-03-15 16:38 can Gnus simply use the Emacs bug tracker? Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-15 17:40 ` Chong Yidong
2011-03-15 18:27   ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-15 19:32   ` Glenn Morris
2011-03-15 19:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-03-15 19:23 ` Glenn Morris
2011-03-15 19:41   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-03-15 19:47   ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-15 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
2011-03-16 14:00       ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-16 15:41         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-03-16 15:58           ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-16 17:51             ` Glenn Morris
2011-03-16 17:55               ` Glenn Morris
2011-03-16 19:41                 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-03-16 17:32         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-03-16 18:44           ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-17 16:52             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-03-17 17:27               ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-17 17:40                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-03-17 17:50                   ` Glenn Morris
2011-03-17 17:53                     ` Glenn Morris
2011-03-18  8:33                     ` Reiner Steib
2011-03-18 13:04                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-29 18:53                         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-03-29 19:09                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-06-28 15:31                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-17 19:12                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-06-28 15:33                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2011-03-15 20:31   ` Chong Yidong
2011-03-15 20:45     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

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