Where has a cool feature gone?

Where has a cool feature gone?

[Davin Pearson]

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In another version of emacs the third argument to add-hook can be a
number between -70 and 70, like so:

(add-hook 'find-file-hook 'dmp-find-file-hook 70)

In the version of emacs that I am currently using (26.3) it turns non
nil third arguments to t otherwise leave nil as nil.

Having numbers for the third argument seems like you have more
flexibility in order of the sequences of hooks to your hook variables.

Do I need to upgrade the Emacs version?  Ubuntu tells me I am using the
most up to date version of Emacs.

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Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Phil Sainty]

On 2022-07-23 17:00, Davin Pearson wrote:
> In the version of emacs that I am currently using (26.3)
> ...
> Do I need to upgrade the Emacs version?  Ubuntu tells me
> I am using the most up to date version of Emacs.

Ubuntu tells you you're using the most recent version of their
OS package for Emacs that they provide for the version of
Ubuntu that you are currently using.

It's not difficult to learn that 26.3 is not the most up to
date version of Emacs.  Among many other searchable sources,
the Emacs web site https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/#Releases
shows that since 26.3 there have been releases for 27.1, 27.2,
and 28.1.

The feature in question hasn't "gone" anywhere, but it never
existed in the version you're using (nor in earlier versions).

If you want to use a newer release of Emacs in your version of
Ubuntu, you will need to install it some other way (compiling
it yourself is always an option, but there might be alternative
packaged options).

It also sounds like you're referring to documentation which
is external to the version of emacs that you're using.  You
should always use the in-built manuals -- they will detail
the features of the version you're actually using.

Make sure you're actually reading the documentation for the
version you're using before questioning why a feature doesn't
work the way you expect.


-Phil

Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 17:00:13 +1200
> 
> In another version of emacs the third argument to add-hook can be a
> number between -70 and 70, like so:
> 
> (add-hook 'find-file-hook 'dmp-find-file-hook 70)
> 
> In the version of emacs that I am currently using (26.3) it turns non
> nil third arguments to t otherwise leave nil as nil.
> 
> Having numbers for the third argument seems like you have more
> flexibility in order of the sequences of hooks to your hook variables.
> 
> Do I need to upgrade the Emacs version?  Ubuntu tells me I am using the
> most up to date version of Emacs.

This is a new feature since Emacs 27.

Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Akib Azmain Turja]

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Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com> writes:

> In another version of emacs the third argument to add-hook can be a
> number between -70 and 70, like so:
>
> (add-hook 'find-file-hook 'dmp-find-file-hook 70)
>
> In the version of emacs that I am currently using (26.3) it turns non
> nil third arguments to t otherwise leave nil as nil.
>
> Having numbers for the third argument seems like you have more
> flexibility in order of the sequences of hooks to your hook variables.
>
> Do I need to upgrade the Emacs version?

Yes, according to the NEWS file of Emacs 27.1:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
** 'add-hook' does not always add to the front or the end any more.
The replacement of 'append' with 'depth' implies that the function is
not always added to the very front (when append/depth is nil) or the
very end (when append/depth is t) any more because other functions on
the hook may have specified higher/lower depths.  This makes it
possible to control the ordering of functions more precisely, as was
already possible in 'add-function' and 'advice-add'.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

> Ubuntu tells me I am using the
> most up to date version of Emacs.

Ubuntu is lying.  The latest version is 28.1.  Probably it's not in your
version.  You can build Emacs yourself or use a PPA, or switch to a
rolling release distribution (e.g. GNU Guix, which as stable as Ubuntu
(if not more)), or install GNU Guix in your Ubuntu (alongside apt).

-- 
Akib Azmain Turja

Find me on Mastodon at @akib@hostux.social.

This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key.  It's fingerprint is:

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Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Davin Pearson]

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Here are my attempts to install Gnu Guix:
None of them work!

www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get Guix
[sudo] password for www:
E: Invalid operation Guix
www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get GNU Guix
E: Invalid operation GNU
www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get "GNU Guix"
E: Invalid operation GNU Guix
www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install "GNU Guix"
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package GNU Guix
www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install Guix
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package Guix

On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 at 23:04, Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org> wrote:

> Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > In another version of emacs the third argument to add-hook can be a
> > number between -70 and 70, like so:
> >
> > (add-hook 'find-file-hook 'dmp-find-file-hook 70)
> >
> > In the version of emacs that I am currently using (26.3) it turns non
> > nil third arguments to t otherwise leave nil as nil.
> >
> > Having numbers for the third argument seems like you have more
> > flexibility in order of the sequences of hooks to your hook variables.
> >
> > Do I need to upgrade the Emacs version?
>
> Yes, according to the NEWS file of Emacs 27.1:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> ** 'add-hook' does not always add to the front or the end any more.
> The replacement of 'append' with 'depth' implies that the function is
> not always added to the very front (when append/depth is nil) or the
> very end (when append/depth is t) any more because other functions on
> the hook may have specified higher/lower depths.  This makes it
> possible to control the ordering of functions more precisely, as was
> already possible in 'add-function' and 'advice-add'.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> > Ubuntu tells me I am using the
> > most up to date version of Emacs.
>
> Ubuntu is lying.  The latest version is 28.1.  Probably it's not in your
> version.  You can build Emacs yourself or use a PPA, or switch to a
> rolling release distribution (e.g. GNU Guix, which as stable as Ubuntu
> (if not more)), or install GNU Guix in your Ubuntu (alongside apt).
>
> --
> Akib Azmain Turja
>
> Find me on Mastodon at @akib@hostux.social.
>
> This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key.  It's fingerprint is:
>
>     7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6  66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5
>

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Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Eduardo Ochs]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 at 20:12, Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here are my attempts to install Gnu Guix:
> None of them work!
>
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get Guix
> [sudo] password for www:
> E: Invalid operation Guix
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get GNU Guix
> E: Invalid operation GNU
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get "GNU Guix"
> E: Invalid operation GNU Guix
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install "GNU Guix"
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> E: Unable to locate package GNU Guix
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install Guix
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> E: Unable to locate package Guix

Hi Davin,

I've never used Guix, but these instructions look promising:

  https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Installation.html
  https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Binary-Installation.html

Best,
  Eduardo Ochs
  http://angg.twu.net/#eev

Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Davin Pearson]

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Thanks, I'll check them out.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 11:50, Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 at 20:12, Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Here are my attempts to install Gnu Guix:
> > None of them work!
> >
> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get Guix
> > [sudo] password for www:
> > E: Invalid operation Guix
> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get GNU Guix
> > E: Invalid operation GNU
> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get "GNU Guix"
> > E: Invalid operation GNU Guix
> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install "GNU Guix"
> > Reading package lists... Done
> > Building dependency tree
> > Reading state information... Done
> > E: Unable to locate package GNU Guix
> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install Guix
> > Reading package lists... Done
> > Building dependency tree
> > Reading state information... Done
> > E: Unable to locate package Guix
>
> Hi Davin,
>
> I've never used Guix, but these instructions look promising:
>
>   https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Installation.html
>   https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Binary-Installation.html
>
> Best,
>   Eduardo Ochs
>   http://angg.twu.net/#eev
>

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Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Davin Pearson]

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I thought it might be easier to manually install Emacs rather
than get some third party software for installing Emacs.

See my later posting: Problems installing Emacs Version 28.1

On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 13:21, Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, I'll check them out.
>
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 11:50, Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 at 20:12, Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Here are my attempts to install Gnu Guix:
>> > None of them work!
>> >
>> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get Guix
>> > [sudo] password for www:
>> > E: Invalid operation Guix
>> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get GNU Guix
>> > E: Invalid operation GNU
>> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get "GNU Guix"
>> > E: Invalid operation GNU Guix
>> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install "GNU Guix"
>> > Reading package lists... Done
>> > Building dependency tree
>> > Reading state information... Done
>> > E: Unable to locate package GNU Guix
>> > www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install Guix
>> > Reading package lists... Done
>> > Building dependency tree
>> > Reading state information... Done
>> > E: Unable to locate package Guix
>>
>> Hi Davin,
>>
>> I've never used Guix, but these instructions look promising:
>>
>>   https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Installation.html
>>   https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Binary-Installation.html
>>
>> Best,
>>   Eduardo Ochs
>>   http://angg.twu.net/#eev
>>
>

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Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[tomas]

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On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 11:10:52AM +1200, Davin Pearson wrote:
> Here are my attempts to install Gnu Guix:
> None of them work!
> 
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get Guix
> [sudo] password for www:
> E: Invalid operation Guix

This is apt-get complaining: it wants first an operation
("install", "remove", etc. -- see apt-get's manual page
for the full list)

> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get GNU Guix
> E: Invalid operation GNU

You read this as "install 'GNU guix'" -- the package name
you gave has a space, apt-get tries to interpret the first
part as the operation ("GNU") and fails.

And so on. The Debian package you are looking for is called
simply "guix", so try this:

  apt-get install guix

That said, if you are new to apt, I'd look into "apt", which
might be a friendlier front-end to the package manager.

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[tomas]

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On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 04:22:33PM +1200, Davin Pearson wrote:
> I thought it might be easier to manually install Emacs rather
> than get some third party software for installing Emacs.

I haven't followed this thread, so I don't know about your
concrete use case. But I don't think there's a general answer
to this. Sometimes it's that way, sometimes it's this (and
I don't know what you are referring to "third party": is it
Guix or is it APT?).

And, to tell the truth, there's always some third party involved:
I do install Emacs from source, but am happy my distribution
provides me with a pre-built buildchain (gcc, Make, autoconf,
what not) so I don't have to do the full bootstrap. All is, as
they say, relative ;-)

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: Where has a cool feature gone?

[Akib Azmain Turja]

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Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com> writes:

> Here are my attempts to install Gnu Guix:
> None of them work!
>
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get Guix
> [sudo] password for www:
> E: Invalid operation Guix
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get GNU Guix
> E: Invalid operation GNU
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get "GNU Guix"
> E: Invalid operation GNU Guix
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install "GNU Guix"
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> E: Unable to locate package GNU Guix
> www@www-HP-EliteBook-840-G2:~$ sudo apt-get install Guix
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> E: Unable to locate package Guix

Maybe "sudo apt install guix" will work.  I'm not sure.

But be sure to check out the following, it will work for almost all
Linux (kernel) based OS:

  https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Binary-Installation.html

After installing Guix, make sure to check out the manual, it contains
much more information.

>
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 at 23:04, Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org> wrote:
>
>> Davin Pearson <davin.pearson@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > In another version of emacs the third argument to add-hook can be a
>> > number between -70 and 70, like so:
>> >
>> > (add-hook 'find-file-hook 'dmp-find-file-hook 70)
>> >
>> > In the version of emacs that I am currently using (26.3) it turns non
>> > nil third arguments to t otherwise leave nil as nil.
>> >
>> > Having numbers for the third argument seems like you have more
>> > flexibility in order of the sequences of hooks to your hook variables.
>> >
>> > Do I need to upgrade the Emacs version?
>>
>> Yes, according to the NEWS file of Emacs 27.1:
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> ** 'add-hook' does not always add to the front or the end any more.
>> The replacement of 'append' with 'depth' implies that the function is
>> not always added to the very front (when append/depth is nil) or the
>> very end (when append/depth is t) any more because other functions on
>> the hook may have specified higher/lower depths.  This makes it
>> possible to control the ordering of functions more precisely, as was
>> already possible in 'add-function' and 'advice-add'.
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>> > Ubuntu tells me I am using the
>> > most up to date version of Emacs.
>>
>> Ubuntu is lying.  The latest version is 28.1.  Probably it's not in your
>> version.  You can build Emacs yourself or use a PPA, or switch to a
>> rolling release distribution (e.g. GNU Guix, which as stable as Ubuntu
>> (if not more)), or install GNU Guix in your Ubuntu (alongside apt).
>>
>> --
>> Akib Azmain Turja
>>
>> Find me on Mastodon at @akib@hostux.social.
>>
>> This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key.  It's fingerprint is:
>>
>>     7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6  66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5
>>

-- 
Akib Azmain Turja

Find me on Mastodon at @akib@hostux.social.

This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key.  It's fingerprint is:

    7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6  66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5

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