Translating the Emacs website

Translating the Emacs website

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

It seems to me that before we start working on the manuals, a good 
entry point could be the web site.

It would also be a nice way to properly introduce the fact that we have 
a full-fledged localised tutorial inside Emacs (I know it is referenced 
on the page, but there are probably other ways we can use its contents).


To go back to the discussion about using PO or not, it seems like the 
GNU project web page translations use PO files:

https://www.gnu.org/server/standards/README.translations.html#tools

The tool that’s used to convert the files to PO is called GNUN 
(GNUnited Nations):
https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html

GNUN only works with HTML.

So the question is, how do we organise the Emacs page translation? 
Should it be handled by the GNU Project translation teams? 

There seems to be a lot of reference documents regarding web 
translations:

Guide to Translating Web Pages on www.gnu.org
https://www.gnu.org/server/standards/README.translations.html

GNU Web Translators Manual
https://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/gnu/trans-coord/manual/web-trans/html_node/index.html

How to Translate Using PO Files
https://www.gnu.org/server/standards/translations/po-how-to.html

Note: adding “/po/” does not seem to produce the right effect on the Emacs pages:
https://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/gnu/emacs/po/emacs.pot
does not exist.

Any  idea?


-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary
@jchelary@emacs.ch
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/

Re: Translating the Emacs website

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 04:33:05 +0000
> From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org>
> Cc: nicolas@petton.fr
> 
> It seems to me that before we start working on the manuals, a good 
> entry point could be the web site.
> 
> It would also be a nice way to properly introduce the fact that we have 
> a full-fledged localised tutorial inside Emacs (I know it is referenced 
> on the page, but there are probably other ways we can use its contents).
> 
> 
> To go back to the discussion about using PO or not, it seems like the 
> GNU project web page translations use PO files:
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/server/standards/README.translations.html#tools
> 
> The tool that’s used to convert the files to PO is called GNUN 
> (GNUnited Nations):
> https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html
> 
> GNUN only works with HTML.
> 
> So the question is, how do we organise the Emacs page translation? 
> Should it be handled by the GNU Project translation teams? 

I have no idea.

Please note that the Web pages get updated by the person who produces
the release tarballs (the details are in admin/make-tarball.txt), and
that person cannot be expected to be able to update the translations
as well.  So there's a significant problem here which needs to be
addressed before the idea of having the Web pages translated is
practical.  In particular, I don't think this should be something
added to the job of the Emacs maintainers, and we therefore need to
find some other ways of maintaining the translated Web pages and
keeping them up to date.

Re: Translating the Emacs website

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Mar 3, 2024, at 16:32, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
>> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 04:33:05 +0000
>> From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org>
>> Cc: nicolas@petton.fr
>> 
>> It seems to me that before we start working on the manuals, a good
>> entry point could be the web site.
>> 
>> It would also be a nice way to properly introduce the fact that we have
>> a full-fledged localised tutorial inside Emacs (I know it is referenced
>> on the page, but there are probably other ways we can use its contents).
>> 
>> 
>> To go back to the discussion about using PO or not, it seems like the
>> GNU project web page translations use PO files:
>> 
>> https://www.gnu.org/server/standards/README.translations.html#tools
>> 
>> The tool that’s used to convert the files to PO is called GNUN
>> (GNUnited Nations):
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html
>> 
>> GNUN only works with HTML.
>> 
>> So the question is, how do we organise the Emacs page translation?
>> Should it be handled by the GNU Project translation teams?
> 
> I have no idea.
> 
> Please note that the Web pages get updated by the person who produces
> the release tarballs (the details are in admin/make-tarball.txt), and
> that person cannot be expected to be able to update the translations
> as well.  So there's a significant problem here which needs to be
> addressed before the idea of having the Web pages translated is
> practical.  In particular, I don't think this should be something
> added to the job of the Emacs maintainers, and we therefore need to
> find some other ways of maintaining the translated Web pages and
> keeping them up to date.

I understand. So that part of the gnu site is not really handled by the 
gnu project, but really by people here (you I guess). Is that correct?

Re: Translating the Emacs website

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > The tool that’s used to convert the files to PO is called GNUN 
  > (GNUnited Nations):
  > https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html

  > GNUN only works with HTML.

Making a modified version of GNUN which operates on Texinfo format
might be feasible.  I suggest looking at that possibility
rather than assuming it is not an option.
-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Translating the Emacs website

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Mar 4, 2024, at 12:45, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> 
>> The tool that’s used to convert the files to PO is called GNUN
>> (GNUnited Nations):
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html
> 
>> GNUN only works with HTML.
> 
> Making a modified version of GNUN which operates on Texinfo format
> might be feasible.  I suggest looking at that possibility
> rather than assuming it is not an option.

I am not assuming that it is not an option. I am only mentioning the 
fact that GNU pages are translated by using the PO format, which was an 
issue discussed earlier in the manuals translation discussions.

I am not trying to push PO conversion as a default process to translate 
the manuals, though. It’s just a data point.

As far as Texinfo is concerned, the po4a utility already supports 
Texinfo, even if the process is still in “beta” version.

https://po4a.org/man/man3/Locale::Po4a::Texinfo.3pm.php

Re: Translating the Emacs website

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 09:04:35 +0000
> From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, nicolas@petton.fr
> 
> 
> 
> > On Mar 3, 2024, at 16:32, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 04:33:05 +0000
> >> From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org>
> >> Cc: nicolas@petton.fr
> >> 
> >> It seems to me that before we start working on the manuals, a good
> >> entry point could be the web site.
> >> 
> >> It would also be a nice way to properly introduce the fact that we have
> >> a full-fledged localised tutorial inside Emacs (I know it is referenced
> >> on the page, but there are probably other ways we can use its contents).
> >> 
> >> 
> >> To go back to the discussion about using PO or not, it seems like the
> >> GNU project web page translations use PO files:
> >> 
> >> https://www.gnu.org/server/standards/README.translations.html#tools
> >> 
> >> The tool that’s used to convert the files to PO is called GNUN
> >> (GNUnited Nations):
> >> https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html
> >> 
> >> GNUN only works with HTML.
> >> 
> >> So the question is, how do we organise the Emacs page translation?
> >> Should it be handled by the GNU Project translation teams?
> > 
> > I have no idea.
> > 
> > Please note that the Web pages get updated by the person who produces
> > the release tarballs (the details are in admin/make-tarball.txt), and
> > that person cannot be expected to be able to update the translations
> > as well.  So there's a significant problem here which needs to be
> > addressed before the idea of having the Web pages translated is
> > practical.  In particular, I don't think this should be something
> > added to the job of the Emacs maintainers, and we therefore need to
> > find some other ways of maintaining the translated Web pages and
> > keeping them up to date.
> 
> I understand. So that part of the gnu site is not really handled by the 
> gnu project, but really by people here (you I guess). Is that correct?

The site was written and arranged by Nicolas, but since then most of
the changes are by the Emacs project.  However, we only make small
changes, like adding NEWS for a new release and such.