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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Current mode command discovery
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 17:19:11 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83mtvxxxcg.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1lDi4J-0005Hn-BB@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 01:18:11 -0500)

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 01:18:11 -0500
> 
>   > You distinguish between "commands" and "keys"?  Emacs doesn't.  C-f is
>   > a _command_, not (just) a key.
> 
> Using our terminology carefully, C-f is not a command.  C-f is a key,
> and it is bound to the command forward-char.
> 
> I'm often sloppy about this, and I suppose everyone is.  But when
> these distinctions matter, let's follow the definitions.

I never perceived this as a sloppiness.  Since the first time I've
read the tutorial, the notion of C-f etc. being a kind of command was
very clear to me.  The tutorial has this all over the place.  Here's a
typical example, of which there are many:

  The following commands are useful for viewing screenfuls:

	  C-v	Move forward one screenful
	  M-v	Move backward one screenful
	  C-l	Clear screen and redisplay all the text,

It even says right at the beginning:

  Emacs commands generally involve the CONTROL key (often labeled CTRL)
  or the META key (usually labeled ALT).  Rather than writing that

Later it says:

  * EXTENDING THE COMMAND SET
  ---------------------------

  There are many, many more Emacs commands than could possibly be put
  on all the control and meta characters.  Emacs gets around this with
  the X (eXtend) command.  This comes in two flavors:

	  C-x	Character eXtend.  Followed by one character.
	  M-x	Named command eXtend.  Followed by a long name.

Take away the notion that C-f is a command, not only a key, and the
above explanation of "command extension" has no basis, except perhaps
as a historical curiosity.

So I think we should maintain that C-f etc. is a command as well as a
key sequence.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-02-21 15:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 177+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-14 17:19 Current mode command discovery Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 17:26 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-15  3:00   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 17:29 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15  3:02   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 12:21     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-16 12:38       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 12:56         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-14 17:56   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 18:15     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-15  3:04       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-15 15:13         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 12:04           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 15:36             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 16:28               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 17:06                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 18:08               ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-16 18:12                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 18:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 18:37                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 18:51                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 18:57                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 19:24                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 19:33                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 19:50                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 20:55                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17  3:25                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-17 11:11                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 17:01                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-18  6:02                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-16 23:32                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-17 15:38                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-17 16:28                                   ` tomas
2021-02-17 17:49                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 19:25                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-17 19:33                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 18:00                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-17 19:34                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19  5:41                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-19  8:57                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:52                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 22:33                                           ` chad
2021-02-19 23:01                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-19 23:19                                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20  7:01                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 19:43                                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 17:10                                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-20 13:15                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:36                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-22  4:00                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-22  5:27                                                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 19:43                                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-19 14:52                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-17 18:32                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 11:16                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-17  8:34                           ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-17 11:15                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 23:30     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 19:53   ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 20:25     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-14 21:20       ` tomas
2021-02-14 23:02         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-14 23:30         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 21:20       ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-14 21:39       ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 22:07         ` tomas
2021-02-14 23:30           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:30         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:30     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:30   ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 19:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 20:00   ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 20:16     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 20:49       ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 21:56         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 23:18           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-14 23:46             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-15  2:26             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-15  0:29 ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-15  2:45   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17  2:20 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-17 11:29   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-17 11:30   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 16:26     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-17 17:52       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 22:46         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-18 10:14           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-18 13:05             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-18 14:06               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-18 17:15                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-19 12:23                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 12:30                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:34                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 12:42                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:59                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 13:40                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 13:45                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 13:54                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 14:07                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 12:35                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-19 12:43                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:52                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-19 12:38                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-17 18:21     ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-17 18:32       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 22:26         ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-17 22:33           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 18:41       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-17 22:28         ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-20 11:55     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 11:49   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 14:18 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:29   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 14:31     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:38       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 14:51         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 16:52           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 17:20             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 17:43               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 17:31           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-20 20:17             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 21:10               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 22:09                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-21  6:15                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 15:13                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 21:43               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 22:09                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 22:22                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 23:53                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 21:58               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-20 23:53                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-28 12:32               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-28 12:41                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-28 17:21                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 14:51         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 15:23           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 16:17             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-20 19:45               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 16:55                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 21:39                   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-21 22:46                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 12:42             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:57         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 15:11           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 15:44             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 17:00               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 17:46                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 18:09                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-22 14:34                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-22 15:53                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 19:45           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 14:56   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 14:59     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 15:37   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 16:05     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 16:18       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 16:22       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-20 16:23       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 16:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 17:25           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 17:29             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21  6:18               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 15:19                 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-02-21 16:54                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 16:44                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21  6:23               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 12:55     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 15:33       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 15:47         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 17:03           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 17:44             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 18:01               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 18:21                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 18:28                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 18:37                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 19:20                       ` Eli Zaretskii

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