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From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Current mode command discovery
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:00:22 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <871rdebmmh.fsf@telefonica.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 83o8gi7lh2.fsf@gnu.org

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Imagine user confusion and frustration when a command that is known to
>> > Help cannot be invoked!
>> 
>> Why would the user wish to invoke a command that makes no sense on the
>> context he is working on?
>
> Because whoever marked it "nonsensical" made a mistake?  Or because
> time passed, things have changed, and what made no sense back then may
> make sense now, and Emacs maintainers missed that or couldn't keep up?
>
> IOW, let's not assume that the marking is perfect.  It's done by us,
> and we can make mistakes.

Yes, aka bugs. Why would we cripple a feature because it can contain
bugs?

>> After all, we also hide the menus of modes when they are not active
>> on the current buffer.
>
> Menus only show a small fraction of the commands.  More importantly, a
> command that doesn't appear in the menus still can be invoked, so the
> user does have a "fire escape" in that case.

The user has many fire scapes: he can edit the function, use M-: or,
simply, disable the filtering. Or implement the gesture you suggested on
the paragraph I didn't quote, although that is not my preferred solution
because those gestures tend to be hard to discover and remember.

Nobody is suggesting that the filtering should be mandatory. Maybe we
can argue about the default, but that's all (FWIW, I'm in favor of
making it optional in 28 and consider it as the default for 29)




  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-02-17 18:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 177+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-14 17:19 Current mode command discovery Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 17:26 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-15  3:00   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 17:29 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15  3:02   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 12:21     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-16 12:38       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 12:56         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-14 17:56   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 18:15     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-15  3:04       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-15 15:13         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 12:04           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 15:36             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 16:28               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 17:06                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 18:08               ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-16 18:12                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 18:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 18:37                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 18:51                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 18:57                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 19:24                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 19:33                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-16 19:50                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-16 20:55                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17  3:25                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-17 11:11                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 17:01                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-18  6:02                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-16 23:32                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-17 15:38                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-17 16:28                                   ` tomas
2021-02-17 17:49                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 19:25                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-17 19:33                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 18:00                                   ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2021-02-17 19:34                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19  5:41                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-19  8:57                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:52                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 22:33                                           ` chad
2021-02-19 23:01                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-19 23:19                                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20  7:01                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 19:43                                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 17:10                                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-20 13:15                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:36                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-22  4:00                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-22  5:27                                                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 19:43                                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-19 14:52                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-17 18:32                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 11:16                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-17  8:34                           ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-17 11:15                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 23:30     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 19:53   ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 20:25     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-14 21:20       ` tomas
2021-02-14 23:02         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-14 23:30         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 21:20       ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-14 21:39       ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 22:07         ` tomas
2021-02-14 23:30           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:30         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:30     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:30   ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 19:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 20:00   ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 20:16     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 20:49       ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 21:56         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 23:18           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-14 23:46             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-15  2:26             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-15  0:29 ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-15  2:45   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17  2:20 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-17 11:29   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-17 11:30   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 16:26     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-17 17:52       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 22:46         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-18 10:14           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-18 13:05             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-18 14:06               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-18 17:15                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-19 12:23                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 12:30                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:34                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 12:42                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:59                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 13:40                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 13:45                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 13:54                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 14:07                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 12:35                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-19 12:43                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 12:52                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-19 12:38                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-17 18:21     ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-17 18:32       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 22:26         ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-17 22:33           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-17 18:41       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-17 22:28         ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-20 11:55     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 11:49   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 14:18 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:29   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 14:31     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:38       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 14:51         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 16:52           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 17:20             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 17:43               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 17:31           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-20 20:17             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 21:10               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 22:09                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-21  6:15                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 15:13                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 21:43               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 22:09                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 22:22                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-20 23:53                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 21:58               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-20 23:53                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-28 12:32               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-28 12:41                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-28 17:21                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-20 14:51         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 15:23           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 16:17             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-20 19:45               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 16:55                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 21:39                   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-21 22:46                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 12:42             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 14:57         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 15:11           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 15:44             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 17:00               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 17:46                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 18:09                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-22 14:34                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-22 15:53                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 19:45           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 14:56   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 14:59     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 15:37   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 16:05     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 16:18       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 16:22       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-20 16:23       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 16:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 17:25           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 17:29             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21  6:18               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 15:19                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 16:54                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 16:44                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21  6:23               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 12:55     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 15:33       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 15:47         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 17:03           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 17:44             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 18:01               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 18:21                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 18:28                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 18:37                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 19:20                       ` Eli Zaretskii

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