From: martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>
To: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
Cc: Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Patch proposal: display symbol source code in help buffers
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:22:03 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3eb6b3d4-b393-d27e-3611-ee353f98be0c@gmx.at> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <AM9PR09MB4977E4901740790DE7B74EE396A29@AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
>> Help-buffer windows are as a rule displayed via 'display-buffer' and are
>> easily recognizable because their buffer is always called *Help*. So
>> you can simply add a 'window-height' action alist entry for them which
>> is considerably more versatile than what you propose above.
>
> Yes, I know; but think of new users comming from other editors and applications,
> having no experience with Lisp and never heard of conses and alists.
Such users likely do not run 'temp-buffer-resize-mode' either.
> I use display-buffer-alist to achieve something with *Help* buffer (and some
> others) myself. I posted that snippet in the other thread I don't know if all
> that stuff existed back in time when original poster posted his bug repport
> (2011), but at least nowadays, the bug should be marked as resolved, since it is
> possible to tell Emacs to reuse Help buffer and window, instead of opening new
> ones.
I got lost. Which bug report is that?
> However, I don't think my solution to that problem, same as you suggest here,
> is very convenient to new users. People are used to see some option they can
> toggle on/off, some slider they can pull left right, some value they can pull
> from a list or enter into some box. I think it is more helpful to see some
> variable with clear and descriptive name, I think new users would appreciate
> that. But that is just my opinion.
The solution I suggested is for users who know well what they want. New
users should be content with the default and, after experimenting with
it for some time, 'temp-buffer-resize-mode'. BTW, most Emacs developers
use the default, I presume.
> Anyway, I have read both threads you have refered too. One of them, the
> Florians, (Bug#9054), is completely unrelated to what this patch does. Well it
> is about help buffer, but there you are concerned with wath happens *before* user
> enters the help buffer and in which way user will come to that buffer.
>
>> Where to pop up the location of the source and how to get rid of
>> it is a question we currently discuss in Bug#9054
>
> And that is exactly what I say above; this patch is completely not concerned
> with where and how you will pop that window and source code file. I am concerned
> with what happens in a help buffer, after user requested help, *not* how user come
> to that point. I don't even pop a source file; just code for a function or var.
Sorry but did you really read bug report 9054? That report says
Two windows. Run `describe-function' on a function: The help buffer pops
up in the other window. `other-window' and click the link to display the
source file: my original buffer is gone. Very annoying.
What I would like: Either a function that displays the source for the
function at point in the other window or for the *Help* buffer to open
the source file in the same window (i.e. the window which displays the
*Help* buffer).
so it clearly talks about what happens *after* the user entered the help
buffer and not as you claim above "there you are concerned with wath
happens *before* user enters the help buffer and in which way user will
come to that buffer".
> I wish to make help buffer more usable, because I wisth to go away from Helpful
> and I see no reason why we should wait for something unrelated you guys had 10
> years to get consensus on but didn't :). Sorry, that one was hard not to pick on
> :).
>
> I know I sound biased, but the suggested patch works above my personal
> expectations. Suddenly the help buffer acts like a code browser.
I can't speak for others but IMHO a code browser should operate only on
the code itself and not on a copy of it. I wouldn't even want to clone
a buffer or use an indirect buffer for that purpose. For me it's an
essential aspect of free software that browsing and hacking code go hand
in hand.
> I really
> suggest you to try and click a bit around. It wasn't my intention, since I never
> do that in Helpful. I even don't know if it is possible there, but due to
> back/forward functionality in built-in help buffer, it works really nice.
Sorry but I won't be of much help in this regard.
martin
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-09-23 8:22 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-09-19 19:50 Patch proposal: display symbol source code in help buffers Arthur Miller
2021-09-20 5:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-20 6:09 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-20 6:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-20 7:17 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-09-20 7:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-20 8:29 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-20 9:04 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-09-20 23:45 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-21 4:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-21 6:59 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-09-21 7:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-21 8:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-21 9:17 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-09-21 16:49 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 7:05 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-01 7:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 7:21 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-01 7:21 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 9:04 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-01 12:20 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 7:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 9:08 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-01 10:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 14:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-09-21 8:34 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-20 15:01 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-21 7:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-20 15:27 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-20 6:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-20 15:27 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-20 14:55 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-21 4:18 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-21 10:26 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-20 15:23 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-20 5:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-20 6:37 ` Gregor Zattler
2021-09-20 7:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-20 15:21 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-20 8:21 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-20 18:13 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-21 8:34 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-21 10:24 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-21 16:52 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-21 18:56 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-21 17:30 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-21 19:13 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-22 7:49 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-22 16:04 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-22 17:52 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-23 8:15 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-23 15:52 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-26 9:10 ` martin rudalics
2021-09-22 22:38 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-23 8:22 ` martin rudalics [this message]
2021-09-20 12:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-20 15:13 ` Arthur Miller
2021-09-20 15:11 ` Arthur Miller
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