New emacs download page

New emacs download page

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi guys,

I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.

http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/download.html

The FreeBSD & NetBSD sections are missing.  Could someone fluent with
*BSD system tell me how to install Emacs on *BSD?

Cheers,
Nico
-- 
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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Re: New emacs download page

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> Hi guys,

Hi Nicolas,

> I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
> the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.
>
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/download.html

Thank you.  A few suggestions:

1. Add sections (or at least mention) other platforms Emacs support,
e.g., GNUstep, MS-DOS, Solaris, etc.

2. Please mention GNU/Linux distributions that are entirely free[1],
like GuixSD and Trisquel.

> The FreeBSD & NetBSD sections are missing.  Could someone fluent with
> *BSD system tell me how to install Emacs on *BSD?

I'm not fluent with *BSD, but IIRC Emacs can be installed with 'pkg_add'.

Thanks again for working on this.

[1] https://gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

Re: New emacs download page

[Nicolas Petton]

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Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> 1. Add sections (or at least mention) other platforms Emacs support,
> e.g., GNUstep, MS-DOS, Solaris, etc.

I will.

> 2. Please mention GNU/Linux distributions that are entirely free[1],
> like GuixSD and Trisquel.

I do not know anything about these distributions.  Can someone enlighten
me here? 

>> The FreeBSD & NetBSD sections are missing.  Could someone fluent with
>> *BSD system tell me how to install Emacs on *BSD?
>
> I'm not fluent with *BSD, but IIRC Emacs can be installed with
> 'pkg_add'.

Someone else told me to use pkg like the following:

    # pkg install emacs

Nico

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Re: New emacs download page

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

These pages should not mention specific GNU/Linux distros that are
nonfree.  To do so would boost them, which goes against or purposes.

I have not yet seen your download page; a request to fetch it is going
out just now.  But I think all we should say about them is, "Most
GNU/Linux distros provide a package for Emacs through the package
manager."

See http://gnu.org/distros for more about this point.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New emacs download page

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> These pages should not mention specific GNU/Linux distros that are
> nonfree.  To do so would boost them, which goes against or purposes.

I understand your point of view.

However, I don't think making it harder for new users to install GNU
Emacs on common GNU/Linux distros by not mentioning installation
procedures on such systems, and at the same time explaining in detail
how to install GNU Emacs on Windows and OS X is our purpose either.

Also, the purpose of this page is to make adoption of GNU Emacs easier,
not at all to endorse a distro or another.

Do you think we could reach an agreement, for instance by adding a link
and a short text about non-free distros?

Neco

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Re: New emacs download page

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Also, the purpose of this page is to make adoption of GNU Emacs easier,
  > not at all to endorse a distro or another.

The overall purpose of this page is to advance users' freedom.
The overall purpose of GNU Emacs is to advance users' freedom.

Encouraging use of GNU Emacs is a subgoal of that.
We should always remember that it is a subgoal, so that we
are not led to promote the subgoal in ways that work against
the overall purpose.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New emacs download page

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

Hi Nicolas,

> Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> 1. Add sections (or at least mention) other platforms Emacs support,
>> e.g., GNUstep, MS-DOS, Solaris, etc.
>
> I will.

Thank you!

>> 2. Please mention GNU/Linux distributions that are entirely free[1],
>> like GuixSD and Trisquel.
>
> I do not know anything about these distributions.  Can someone enlighten
> me here?

There's a link about these distributions in my last email.  If you don't
know how to install Emacs in these distributions, here are some
instructions for distros I've used:

1. gNewSense (Debian-based) and Trisquel (Ubuntu-based):

apt-get install emacs / emacs24
aptitude install emacs / emacs24

2. GuixSD:

guix package -i emacs
guix package --install=emacs

BTW, should we mention {INSTALL, INSTALL.REPO, nextstep/INSTALL,
nt/INSTALL*, msdos/INSTALL} and probably etc/PROBLEMS (for users run
into common problems when building/installing Emacs)?  I think it might
be useful for those who want to build Emacs manually.

Re: New emacs download page

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > 1. gNewSense (Debian-based) and Trisquel (Ubuntu-based):

  > apt-get install emacs / emacs24
  > aptitude install emacs / emacs24

  > 2. GuixSD:

  > guix package -i emacs
  > guix package --install=emacs

There is nothing ethically wrong about giving all this detail
about these two free distros, but it seems totally redundant.

The user of any system should know what its general method is
for installing packages.  It is wasteful and pointless for us
to repeat that information here.  Let's not go overboard
being uselessly helpful here.  There are so many other things
to do which would actually  be useful.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New emacs download page

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

Hi Richard,

> There is nothing ethically wrong about giving all this detail
> about these two free distros, but it seems totally redundant.
>
> The user of any system should know what its general method is
> for installing packages.  It is wasteful and pointless for us
> to repeat that information here.

I disagree.  From my experience, many users are lost when it comes to
installing Emacs on their system.

Several Windows users have asked me how to get Emacs to run on Windows,
should they use the zip provided on the GNU server (which BTW they often
find hard to find) or if there is a better way.

I got even worse feedback from OS X users who seemed completely lost as
the current Emacs page does not mention at all how to install it on OS
X, and does not provide OS X packages.

If you compare this with what the competition is doing, you might
understand why I think we need to improve this.

Let's take the Atom editor (https://atom.io).  They provide on the front
page links for each system, from .deb archives to .app files for OS X,
which makes it dead simple for newcomers to install their editor on any
supported system.

Nico

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Re: New emacs download page

[Alex Dunn]

Another small thing: the flag for NS builds in Homebrew is
`--with-cocoa` rather than `--cocoa`:

```
brew install emacs --with-cocoa
```

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Hi guys,
>
> I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
> the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.
>
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/download.html
>
> The FreeBSD & NetBSD sections are missing.  Could someone fluent with
> *BSD system tell me how to install Emacs on *BSD?
>
> Cheers,
> Nico
> -- 
> Nicolas Petton
> http://nicolas-petton.fr

Re: New emacs download page

[lux]

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>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
>> the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.
>>
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/download.html
>>
>> The FreeBSD & NetBSD sections are missing.  Could someone fluent with
>> *BSD system tell me how to install Emacs on *BSD?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nico
>> -- 
>> Nicolas Petton
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr
>

for FreeBSD:

/$ sudo pkg install emacs24/

for OpenBSD:

/$ doas pkg_add emacs
/
if OpenBSD < 5.8:/

$ sudo pkg_add emacs
/

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Re: New emacs download page

[Jiří Šebele]

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It would be really nice to do some JavaScript magic to make the most relevant download instructions appear on top – currently the OSX info is last on the page for me.
On February 19, 2016 at 3:42:46 AM, lux (lx@shellcodes.org) wrote:


Hi guys,

I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.

http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/download.html

The FreeBSD & NetBSD sections are missing.  Could someone fluent with
*BSD system tell me how to install Emacs on *BSD?

Cheers,
Nico
--  
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr


for FreeBSD:

$ sudo pkg install emacs24

for OpenBSD:

$ doas pkg_add emacs

if OpenBSD < 5.8:

$ sudo pkg_add emacs

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Re: New emacs download page

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > It would be really nice to do some JavaScript magic to make the
  > most relevant download instructions appear on top – currently the
  > OSX info is last on the page for me.

We must not do this, because it would undermine our principal message:
nonfree software is an injustice and you should shun it for your
freedom's sake.

Our principle message for MacOS users is NOT "here's how to
install our convenient editor" but "MacOS treats you unjustly."
We must take care, every time we mention MacOS
(or any nonfree system), not to let people assume by default
that we agree with the majority that consider proprietary
software acceptable.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New emacs download page

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > for FreeBSD:

  > /$ sudo pkg install emacs24/

  > for OpenBSD:

  > /$ doas pkg_add emacs
  > /
  > if OpenBSD < 5.8:/

  > $ sudo pkg_add emacs
  > /

There is no reason for the Emacs web pages to teach users of these
non-GNU systems how to use their package managers.  We should not
include such instructions.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New emacs download page

[Nicolas Petton]

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Alex Dunn <dunn.alex@gmail.com> writes:

> Another small thing: the flag for NS builds in Homebrew is
> `--with-cocoa` rather than `--cocoa`:

Oh, thanks! I'll fix it shortly.

Nico

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Re: New emacs download page

[Clément Pit--Claudel]

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On 02/18/2016 12:31 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:
> I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
> the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.

One small comment:

Now that the downloads page is separate, it could be good to have a link pointing back to the homepage. It could be the Emacs logo.
In the current version, I had trouble going from the download page to the home page. I wonder if just putting the long download section at the end of the main page wouldn't work just as well, but I trust your judgement given the excellent quality of this new website.

Clément.


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Re: New emacs download page

[Nicolas Petton]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016, at 07:38 PM, Clément Pit--Claudel wrote:
> On 02/18/2016 12:31 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:
> > I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
> > the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.
> 
> One small comment:
> 
> Now that the downloads page is separate, it could be good to have a link
> pointing back to the homepage. It could be the Emacs logo.

Yes, I will do that.

nico

Re: New emacs download page

[Angelo Graziosi]

Nicolas Petton wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I moved the download section to its own page and added documentation for
> the major GNU/Linux distributions as well as Windows and OS X.
>
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/download.html
>
> The FreeBSD & NetBSD sections are missing.  Could someone fluent with
> *BSD system tell me how to install Emacs on *BSD?

For OSX I would add the MacPorts (https://www.macports.org/) 
installation. For example:

sudo port install emacs-app    (Cocoa build)

sudo port install emacs-mac-app (Mac port build)

(it has other options like GTK, devel etc.)


Regarding Windows, for who uses MSYS2, the installation would be:

pacman -S mingw-w64-x86_64-emacs  (64 bit build)
pacman -S mingw-w64-i686-emacs    (32bit build)

these are Windows "native" builds.

But do not forget Cygwin builds!

Another option would be to install

https://sourceforge.net/projects/emacsbinw64/?source=directory

or

https://sourceforge.net/projects/emacs-bin/?source=directory



Ciao,
  Angelo.