From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: sbaugh@catern.com, 62958@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#62958: [PATCH] Set PAGER=cat in comint.el
Date: Tue, 09 May 2023 12:30:42 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ier7cthtqkt.fsf@janestreet.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <831qjpbj8j.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 09 May 2023 18:46:36 +0300")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: sbaugh@catern.com
>> Date: Tue, 09 May 2023 14:55:31 +0000 (UTC)
>> Cc: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>, 62958@debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> >> From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>
>> >> Cc: 62958@debbugs.gnu.org
>> >> Date: Mon, 08 May 2023 15:38:12 -0400
>> >>
>> >> > Pagination is not needed, and gets in the way, when the output of
>> >> > the program is directed to an Emacs buffer, so in those cases
>> >> > pagination should be disabled. To disable pagination, this
>> >> > variable's value should be a string that names a program, such
>> >> > as \"cat\", which passes through all of the output without any
>> >> > filtering or delays. Comint will then set the PAGER variable
>> >> > to name that program, when it invokes external programs."
>> >>
>> >> I think it's worth noting the fact that there are programs which depend
>> >> on pagination for their normal functionality. How about this short
>> >> additional paragraph added after your text:
>> >>
>> >> "Disabling pagination means programs will produce their entire output
>> >> immediately. If only part of the output is useful, this can be
>> >> wasteful. For some programs, this can be avoided by using commands (for
>> >> example, `vc-print-log') which run the program, limit the output it
>> >> produces, and let the user interactively browse the output inside
>> >> Emacs."
>> >
>> > Sorry, I don't understand: why would it matter that a program produces
>> > its output immediately when that output is redirected to an Emacs
>> > buffer? Whatever the amount of output, the user can always page
>> > through it interactively and conveniently using the normal movement
>> > commands, no? What am I missing?
>>
>> If the command produces a lot of output it can take a long time to run
>> and slow down Emacs.
>>
>> For example, if a user disables pagination, runs M-x shell, and then
>> runs "git log" in the Emacs repo, it takes ~3.5 minutes to run and
>> produces ~1.5 million lines. Even if all they want is to see the 10
>> most recent commits. There are several negative effects of this, in
>> decreasing order of importance:
>>
>> - The shell buffer now has way more output, which slows down navigation
>> and operations on that buffer forever after, including font lock.
>> - The user's shell is blocked during that whole time, preventing further
>> shell commands.
>> - git log producing unnecessary output wastes CPU and IO.
>>
>> If "git log" is run with a pager, it can complete as soon as the user
>> exits the pager, and it only produces a few lines.
>
> But this is impossible in general, AFAIU: most comint clients aren't
> prepared for interactive paging anyway. If someone wants paging, they
> should use "M-x term" or "M-x ansi-term", the terminal emulators that
> Emacs provides.
Yes. I of course know that, that's why I filed this bug :)
Nevertheless, today by default many programs run in comint clients will
run a pager, and even though it is a hassle and gets in the way inside
Emacs, it does prevent some programs from producing lots of output and
yielding the negative effects I mentioned previously:
>> - The shell buffer now has way more output, which slows down navigation
>> and operations on that buffer forever after, including font lock.
>> - The user's shell is blocked during that whole time, preventing further
>> shell commands.
>> - git log producing unnecessary output wastes CPU and IO.
Because of these negative effects which will start happening for some
programs when the user disables pagination, I think it's important for
users to know that there's alternatives for such programs: namely, using
native Emacs interfaces like vc-print-log.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-05-09 16:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-04-19 21:57 bug#62958: [PATCH] Set PAGER=cat in comint.el Spencer Baugh
2023-04-20 6:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 15:47 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-04-20 15:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 16:01 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-05-05 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-08 19:38 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-05-09 5:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 14:55 ` sbaugh
2023-05-09 15:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 16:30 ` Spencer Baugh [this message]
2023-05-09 16:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 16:53 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-05-09 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 17:01 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-05-09 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 17:13 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-05-09 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-16 19:49 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-05-17 11:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-17 14:55 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-05-19 6:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-26 11:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 17:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 16:39 ` Juri Linkov
2023-05-10 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 18:13 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-12 17:49 ` Juri Linkov
2023-05-12 22:21 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-04-26 7:54 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-26 9:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
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