* bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
@ 2019-10-18 17:50 Nicholas Drozd
2019-10-19 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Nicholas Drozd @ 2019-10-18 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 37812
The introduction to the Emacs manual says, right near the beginning:
"We call Emacs 'advanced' because it can do much more than simple
insertion and deletion of text. It can control subprocesses, indent
programs automatically, show multiple files at once, and more."
This text has been around for a long time*. Maybe it's time for an
update? Indenting programs automatically and showing multiple files at
once aren't very compelling features these days. My go-to example of a
remarkable Emacs-y feature is EWW, so maybe "browse the Web" could be
added? Or something to do with Org mode? I don't know exactly, but
listing "shows multiple files" as a feature is like describing someone
as "punctual" in a reference letter -- it could signal that the person
has no other important qualities.
* How old exactly, I'm not sure. It appears in the 18.59 manual from
1992 (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/emacs/), so I assume it goes back even
further than that. The passage underwent a minor facelift in 2006
(commit 350287ef), but besides that it has gone substantially
unchanged.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
2019-10-18 17:50 bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features Nicholas Drozd
@ 2019-10-19 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 7:47 ` Michael Albinus
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-19 7:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicholas Drozd, Richard Stallman; +Cc: 37812
> From: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:50:46 -0500
>
> The introduction to the Emacs manual says, right near the beginning:
> "We call Emacs 'advanced' because it can do much more than simple
> insertion and deletion of text. It can control subprocesses, indent
> programs automatically, show multiple files at once, and more."
>
> This text has been around for a long time*. Maybe it's time for an
> update? Indenting programs automatically and showing multiple files at
> once aren't very compelling features these days. My go-to example of a
> remarkable Emacs-y feature is EWW, so maybe "browse the Web" could be
> added? Or something to do with Org mode? I don't know exactly, but
> listing "shows multiple files" as a feature is like describing someone
> as "punctual" in a reference letter -- it could signal that the person
> has no other important qualities.
EWW and Org are very high-level Lisp applications, they aren't
examples of basic features of Emacs as an editor. So I'm not sure
they are appropriate in that introductory section.
Richard, do you have any proposals for how to modify this description?
We still want to say that Emacs is an advanced editor, I'm sure.
We could also leave that text as it is: the fact that there are other
advanced editors nowadays with similar features doesn't mean that
Emacs isn't advanced, and there are certainly simple editors in use
that don't have the features we list as "advanced".
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
2019-10-19 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-10-19 7:47 ` Michael Albinus
2019-10-19 9:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 16:14 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2019-10-19 7:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 37812, Richard Stallman, Nicholas Drozd
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> The introduction to the Emacs manual says, right near the beginning:
>> "We call Emacs 'advanced' because it can do much more than simple
>> insertion and deletion of text. It can control subprocesses, indent
>> programs automatically, show multiple files at once, and more."
>>
>> This text has been around for a long time*. Maybe it's time for an
>> update? Indenting programs automatically and showing multiple files at
>> once aren't very compelling features these days. My go-to example of a
>> remarkable Emacs-y feature is EWW, so maybe "browse the Web" could be
>> added? Or something to do with Org mode? I don't know exactly, but
>> listing "shows multiple files" as a feature is like describing someone
>> as "punctual" in a reference letter -- it could signal that the person
>> has no other important qualities.
>
> EWW and Org are very high-level Lisp applications, they aren't
> examples of basic features of Emacs as an editor. So I'm not sure
> they are appropriate in that introductory section.
We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
local files. I'm biased, of course :-)
Best regards, Michael.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
2019-10-19 7:47 ` Michael Albinus
@ 2019-10-19 9:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 13:27 ` Michael Albinus
2019-10-19 16:14 ` Drew Adams
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-19 9:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: 37812, rms, nicholasdrozd
> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>
> Cc: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd@gmail.com>, Richard Stallman
> <rms@gnu.org>, 37812@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:47:32 +0200
>
> We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
> local files.
That would be indeed a good addition, IMO. Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
2019-10-19 9:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-10-19 13:27 ` Michael Albinus
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2019-10-19 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 37812, rms, nicholasdrozd
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
>> local files.
>
> That would be indeed a good addition, IMO. Thanks.
Done.
Best regards, Michael.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
2019-10-19 7:47 ` Michael Albinus
2019-10-19 9:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-10-19 16:14 ` Drew Adams
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2019-10-19 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Albinus, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 37812, Richard Stallman, Nicholas Drozd
> We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
> local files. I'm biased, of course :-)
+1
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2019-10-18 17:50 bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features Nicholas Drozd
2019-10-19 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 7:47 ` Michael Albinus
2019-10-19 9:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 13:27 ` Michael Albinus
2019-10-19 16:14 ` Drew Adams
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