From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 10:14:33 +0300 Message-ID: <83sgnp6wbq.fsf@gnu.org> References: Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="226156"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 37812@debbugs.gnu.org To: Nicholas Drozd , Richard Stallman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 19 09:15:30 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iLixV-000wib-Hb for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:15:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50078 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLixT-0006vz-N7 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:15:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33909) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLix5-0006vm-Bt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:15:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLix4-0007lq-AX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:15:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:43031) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLix4-0007lh-7J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:15:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iLix4-00078b-0Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:15:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 07:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37812 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 37812-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37812.157146929827418 (code B ref 37812); Sat, 19 Oct 2019 07:15:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37812) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2019 07:14:58 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51852 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iLiwz-000789-Vt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:14:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53060) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iLiwz-00077y-9p for 37812@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:14:57 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60950) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLiwu-0007fQ-6O; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:14:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3556 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iLiwn-0006NP-1X; Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:14:45 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Nicholas Drozd on Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:50:46 -0500) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:169707 Archived-At: > From: Nicholas Drozd > Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:50:46 -0500 > > The introduction to the Emacs manual says, right near the beginning: > "We call Emacs 'advanced' because it can do much more than simple > insertion and deletion of text. It can control subprocesses, indent > programs automatically, show multiple files at once, and more." > > This text has been around for a long time*. Maybe it's time for an > update? Indenting programs automatically and showing multiple files at > once aren't very compelling features these days. My go-to example of a > remarkable Emacs-y feature is EWW, so maybe "browse the Web" could be > added? Or something to do with Org mode? I don't know exactly, but > listing "shows multiple files" as a feature is like describing someone > as "punctual" in a reference letter -- it could signal that the person > has no other important qualities. EWW and Org are very high-level Lisp applications, they aren't examples of basic features of Emacs as an editor. So I'm not sure they are appropriate in that introductory section. Richard, do you have any proposals for how to modify this description? We still want to say that Emacs is an advanced editor, I'm sure. We could also leave that text as it is: the fact that there are other advanced editors nowadays with similar features doesn't mean that Emacs isn't advanced, and there are certainly simple editors in use that don't have the features we list as "advanced". Thanks.