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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: "56305@debbugs.gnu.org" <56305@debbugs.gnu.org>,
	Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
	"monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:56:52 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB54884AB3FA72DACEF928AF5FF3869@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@gmx.at>

> The text mirrors the savage wilderness of GUIs - eat and be eaten.
> That's not the clean, well-lighted environment of a tty.

;-)   Well put.

> 'display-buffer', for example, should not select the window it uses.
> But if you display the buffer in a new frame and the window manager
> decides to always give focus to a new frame, that window will be
> selected.  It took me years to convince Drew that Emacs can't do
> anything about that.

Odd.  I have no recollection of ever not being
convinced that frame operations are often beyond
Emacs's control (i.e., that window mgrs rule the
roost), or that `display-buffer' isn't, itself,
about selecting a window.

But likely this is an abstract interpretation on
your part of some concrete discussion about some
concrete problem/bug.  The devil of whatever
disagreement is likely in the details - that's
my guess.

> You're barking at the wrong tree.  That code worked well for half of
> its lifetime.  What really got us into the present bredouille was commit
> 6355802033d202c63f6fff4b77bf2b0c7aecceef and its ill-fated decision to
> call Fselect_window instead of directly setting selected frame and
> window as the well-established and tested code in display_mode_lines
> did and still does.

As I don't follow commits, could you situate the
change you're talking about in terms of a given
Emacs release or past discussion (e.g. bug thread)?
I'm curious about what got broken when (and why).

> In the sequel, obscure bugs began to pile up, all very difficult to
> describe and reproduce (Bug#23124, Bug#24285, Bug#34317) and were fixed
> with some trickery.  The origin of all that evil remained in place.
> Making the minibuffer follow the selected frame was just the final
> stab.

Thanks for such history.  I haven't experienced
the fallout from the minibuffer following the
selected frame (I'm stuck in Emacs 26).  But I
appreciate getting your perspective about what's
been going on.

> We should eliminate the original sin and be
> done with it once and for all.

Probably easier said than done?

  reply	other threads:[~2022-07-12 14:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-06-29 17:54 bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame martin rudalics
2022-06-29 19:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-30 10:35   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-06-30 20:32   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-02 11:38   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-03  8:16     ` martin rudalics
2022-07-03 16:09       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-03 16:17         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-04 19:10           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-04 19:21             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-04 19:43               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-05  2:29                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-05 15:59                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-05 16:24                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-05 17:09                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-06 17:04                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-06 17:29                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-06 18:16                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-06 18:34                             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-06 18:58                             ` Andreas Schwab
2022-07-06 19:05                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-06 19:09                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2022-07-06 19:22                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-07 17:25                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-07 18:57                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-08 21:03                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-09  2:15                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-07  7:55                             ` martin rudalics
2022-07-07  9:12                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-08  7:01                                 ` martin rudalics
2022-07-08 10:55                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-08 11:55                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-08 18:31                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-09  8:36                                       ` martin rudalics
2022-07-08 21:45                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-07-09  8:35                                     ` martin rudalics
2022-07-09 10:57                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-10  8:07                                         ` martin rudalics
2022-07-10 11:34                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-10 11:47                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-10 12:41                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-10 13:01                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-10 16:13                                             ` Drew Adams
2022-07-10 16:55                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-11  7:45                                             ` martin rudalics
2022-07-11 11:12                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-12  7:33                                                 ` martin rudalics
2022-07-12 16:02                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-11 16:22                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-11 16:43                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-11 17:15                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-11 17:33                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-11 17:34                                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-11 20:09                                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-11 17:06                                                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-11 20:01                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-12  7:35                                                 ` martin rudalics
2022-07-12 14:56                                                   ` Drew Adams [this message]
2022-07-16  7:06                                                     ` martin rudalics
2022-07-16 20:34                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-18  7:36                                                     ` martin rudalics
2022-07-18 14:44                                                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-19  8:09                                                         ` martin rudalics
2022-07-19 16:04                                                           ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-16 23:39                                                   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-17 11:29                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-17 14:03                                                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-17 15:06                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-18  7:37                                                     ` martin rudalics
2022-07-18 14:58                                                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-18 15:58                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-18 16:12                                                           ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-18 16:50                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-19 20:48                                                               ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-20 12:17                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-20 14:54                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-20 16:02                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-21 15:07                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-21 15:58                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-19  8:09                                                         ` martin rudalics
2022-07-07 15:54                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-07-04 19:46             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-04 19:59               ` Alan Mackenzie

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