* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
@ 2021-09-05 5:27 Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 6:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-05 5:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 50394; +Cc: gregory heytings
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
Could we please make this NEWS entry easier to understand:
** Completion List Mode
New key bindings have been added: 'n' and 'p' to navigate completions,
and 'M-g M-c' to switch to the minibuffer, and you can also switch back
to the completion list buffer with 'M-g M-c'.
I suspect that most users have no idea what is "completion list mode",
as IIUC it is an implementation detail. They would be helped more if
this instead referred to "the default completion window" or somesuch
(assuming that's what this is about).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 5:27 bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry Stefan Kangas
@ 2021-09-05 6:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 7:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-05 18:22 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-05 6:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: ghe, 50394
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 07:27:50 +0200
> Cc: gregory heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
>
> ** Completion List Mode
> New key bindings have been added: 'n' and 'p' to navigate completions,
> and 'M-g M-c' to switch to the minibuffer, and you can also switch back
> to the completion list buffer with 'M-g M-c'.
>
> I suspect that most users have no idea what is "completion list mode",
If they don't, they could just do
C-h f completion-list-mode RET
and read there.
> as IIUC it is an implementation detail.
??? No, it's a complete major mode, according to its doc string.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 6:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-09-05 7:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-05 9:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 18:22 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2021-09-05 7:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ghe, 50394, Stefan Kangas
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> as IIUC it is an implementation detail.
>
> ??? No, it's a complete major mode, according to its doc string.
I was also confused by that entry -- perhaps changing it to something to
emphasise that it's an actual mode would help. I.e.:
** Completion List Mode
New key bindings have been added to 'completion-list-mode': 'n' and 'p'
to navigate completions, (etc)
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 7:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2021-09-05 9:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 9:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-05 9:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: ghe, 50394, stefan
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>, ghe@sdf.org, 50394@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2021 09:52:31 +0200
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> as IIUC it is an implementation detail.
> >
> > ??? No, it's a complete major mode, according to its doc string.
>
> I was also confused by that entry -- perhaps changing it to something to
> emphasise that it's an actual mode would help. I.e.:
>
> ** Completion List Mode
>
> New key bindings have been added to 'completion-list-mode': 'n' and 'p'
> to navigate completions, (etc)
Sure, if that helps, why not. I thought the conversion from a mode's
name to its Lisp symbol was something widely known.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 9:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-09-05 9:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-05 9:57 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2021-09-05 9:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ghe, 50394, stefan
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> ** Completion List Mode
>>
>> New key bindings have been added to 'completion-list-mode': 'n' and 'p'
>> to navigate completions, (etc)
>
> Sure, if that helps, why not. I thought the conversion from a mode's
> name to its Lisp symbol was something widely known.
It is -- it's just that this mode's name sounds like it might be
something else, i.e., not a "mode" in the Emacs sense, but a way to
change the way completion works. I'll update the NEWS entry.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 9:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2021-09-05 9:57 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-05 9:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Gregory Heytings, 50394
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> It is -- it's just that this mode's name sounds like it might be
> something else, i.e., not a "mode" in the Emacs sense, but a way to
> change the way completion works. I'll update the NEWS entry.
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 6:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 7:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2021-09-05 18:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 18:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-05 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Gregory Heytings, 50394
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> > ** Completion List Mode
> > New key bindings have been added: 'n' and 'p' to navigate completions,
> > and 'M-g M-c' to switch to the minibuffer, and you can also switch back
> > to the completion list buffer with 'M-g M-c'.
> >
> > I suspect that most users have no idea what is "completion list mode",
>
> If they don't, they could just do
>
> C-h f completion-list-mode RET
>
> and read there.
I don't think that should be needed for such basic functionality.
I changed the headline from the nondescript 'Completion List Mode' to
'Improved navigation in the "*Completions*" buffer"'. I think that
makes things sufficiently clear without having to look elsewhere.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 18:22 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2021-09-05 18:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 19:16 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-05 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: ghe, 50394
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 20:22:03 +0200
> Cc: 50394@debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > > ** Completion List Mode
> > > New key bindings have been added: 'n' and 'p' to navigate completions,
> > > and 'M-g M-c' to switch to the minibuffer, and you can also switch back
> > > to the completion list buffer with 'M-g M-c'.
> > >
> > > I suspect that most users have no idea what is "completion list mode",
> >
> > If they don't, they could just do
> >
> > C-h f completion-list-mode RET
> >
> > and read there.
>
> I don't think that should be needed for such basic functionality.
Which basic functionality are you alluding to here?
> I changed the headline from the nondescript 'Completion List Mode' to
> 'Improved navigation in the "*Completions*" buffer"'. I think that
> makes things sufficiently clear without having to look elsewhere.
Sorry, I don't follow. This is in the section whose headline is
"Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in Emacs 28.1", right? And
each item in that section names a mode or a package, right? So what's
wrong with having a headline there which says "Completion List Mode"?
it's a mode, right?
Or what am I missing?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 18:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-09-05 19:16 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-05 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Gregory Heytings, 50394
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> Which basic functionality are you alluding to here?
Command completion, 'M-x TAB'.
> > I changed the headline from the nondescript 'Completion List Mode' to
> > 'Improved navigation in the "*Completions*" buffer"'. I think that
> > makes things sufficiently clear without having to look elsewhere.
>
> Sorry, I don't follow. This is in the section whose headline is
> "Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in Emacs 28.1", right? And
> each item in that section names a mode or a package, right? So what's
> wrong with having a headline there which says "Completion List Mode"?
> it's a mode, right?
>
> Or what am I missing?
Sorry to be unclear. Because this is about basic functionality it
should not be under "Specialized Modes and Packages" but under
"Changes in Emacs". So I moved it there (or that is my intention, at
least).
Even if we kept it there, things under there usually do not have this format:
* Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in Emacs 28.1
...
** Library Name
Text describing a particular feature
See NEWS.27, etc. for examples.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 19:16 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2021-09-05 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-06 8:21 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-09-05 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: ghe, 50394
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 21:16:06 +0200
> Cc: 50394@debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > Which basic functionality are you alluding to here?
>
> Command completion, 'M-x TAB'.
>
> > > I changed the headline from the nondescript 'Completion List Mode' to
> > > 'Improved navigation in the "*Completions*" buffer"'. I think that
> > > makes things sufficiently clear without having to look elsewhere.
> >
> > Sorry, I don't follow. This is in the section whose headline is
> > "Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in Emacs 28.1", right? And
> > each item in that section names a mode or a package, right? So what's
> > wrong with having a headline there which says "Completion List Mode"?
> > it's a mode, right?
> >
> > Or what am I missing?
>
> Sorry to be unclear. Because this is about basic functionality it
> should not be under "Specialized Modes and Packages" but under
> "Changes in Emacs". So I moved it there (or that is my intention, at
> least).
But the entry specifically talks about key bindings in that particular
mode, so I still don't see why you think it should in a more general
section.
> Even if we kept it there, things under there usually do not have this format:
>
> * Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in Emacs 28.1
> ...
> ** Library Name
> Text describing a particular feature
>
> See NEWS.27, etc. for examples.
Are the examples you have in mind in NEWS (i.e. Emacs 28) or in
NEWS.27? Or maybe just show a couple of examples of "Library Name" so
I wouldn't need to look them up? And in any case, is that relevant to
the issue at hand, or is that a separate issue?
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-05 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-09-06 8:21 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-06 8:27 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-06 8:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Gregory Heytings, 50394
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> But the entry specifically talks about key bindings in that particular
> mode, so I still don't see why you think it should in a more general
> section.
This is often the problem with trying to find a good taxonomy: things
end up fitting in more than one category. In this case, I am trying
to think about where a user would be most helped by seeing it. I
believe this change will be visible enough all over Emacs to warrant a
more prominent location.
If that doesn't convince, I suppose it will have to be where it is.
The important part that remains is an explanation along the lines
"Improved navigation in the "*Completions*" buffer". If this is
uncontroversial, I intend to add such a clarification.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-06 8:21 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2021-09-06 8:27 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-06 23:50 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2021-09-06 8:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: Gregory Heytings, 50394
Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
> The important part that remains is an explanation along the lines
> "Improved navigation in the "*Completions*" buffer". If this is
> uncontroversial, I intend to add such a clarification.
That's a good clarification. I guess most users won't be aware of there
being a particular major mode in the *Completions* buffer.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry
2021-09-06 8:27 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2021-09-06 23:50 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2021-09-06 23:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Gregory Heytings, 50394
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> > The important part that remains is an explanation along the lines
> > "Improved navigation in the "*Completions*" buffer". If this is
> > uncontroversial, I intend to add such a clarification.
>
> That's a good clarification. I guess most users won't be aware of there
> being a particular major mode in the *Completions* buffer.
Thanks, now pushed to master.
This makes it even more clear that the entry is still in the wrong
place IMO, but there we are.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-09-06 23:50 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2021-09-05 5:27 bug#50394: Improve "Completion List Mode" NEWS entry Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 6:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 7:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-05 9:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 9:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-05 9:57 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 18:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 18:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-05 19:16 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-06 8:21 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-06 8:27 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-06 23:50 ` Stefan Kangas
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