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* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
@ 2017-12-03 23:19 Göktuğ Kayaalp
  2017-12-04  3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2019-09-29  0:06 ` Stefan Kangas
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Göktuğ Kayaalp @ 2017-12-03 23:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 29550

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9534 bytes --]


I suggest that the command ‘not-modified’, bound by default to ‘M-~’, be
disabled by default, as it can cause data loss and is easily triggered
accidentally, especially with the British keyboard layout where the key
with the apostrophe and the @ sign is adjacent to the key with the
number sign and tilde: Alt+Shift+<apostrophe> becomes M-@ (mark-word),
Alt+Shift+<number sign> becomes M-~ (not-modified).  When Emacs is quit
without further modifying a buffer marked clean with this function, the
changes are lost.  Certainly this scenario is not very probable, but
given that stuff like ‘upcase-region’ is disabled, I thought this one
can get disabled too.  I was nearly bitten by this, and I'd count myself
as a relatively experienced user :)

Find attached a patch disabling this command.


In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.25)
 of 2017-12-03 built on alpha
Repository revision: 9d7f0e27e0592132c1b5b9c280192333eaf288b8
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11905000
System Description:	Ubuntu 17.10

Recent messages:
next-line: End of buffer
Modification-flag cleared
Saving file /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org...
Wrote /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org
Mark set
Saving file /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org...
Wrote /home/g/co/Playground/django/Readme.org
Type "q" in help window to restore its previous buffer.
Mark set
C-, is undefined [2 times]

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/home/g/local --with-x-toolkit=yes --with-modules
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 --with-mailutils'

Configured features:
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Memory information:
((conses 16 670113 103572)
 (symbols 48 64645 1)
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-- 
İ. Göktuğ Kayaalp	<http://www.gkayaalp.com/>
			 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC
			 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: 0001-lisp-files.el-not-modified-Disable-this-function.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 748 bytes --]

From 8044f65e774d3a1640f1f2f67e044ffa75991206 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?=C4=B0=2E=20G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F=20Kayaalp?= <self@gkayaalp.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 02:13:25 +0300
Subject: [PATCH] * lisp/files.el (not-modified) Disable this function.

---
 lisp/files.el | 2 ++
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+)

diff --git a/lisp/files.el b/lisp/files.el
index 205001e5d5..0160ab9939 100644
--- a/lisp/files.el
+++ b/lisp/files.el
@@ -5301,6 +5301,8 @@ not-modified
                     "Modification-flag cleared"))
   (set-buffer-modified-p arg))
 
+(put 'not-modified 'disabled t)
+
 (defun toggle-read-only (&optional arg interactive)
   "Change whether this buffer is read-only."
   (declare (obsolete read-only-mode "24.3"))
-- 
2.14.1


^ permalink raw reply related	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2017-12-03 23:19 bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default Göktuğ Kayaalp
@ 2017-12-04  3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2017-12-04 17:58   ` Glenn Morris
  2017-12-05  9:49   ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
  2019-09-29  0:06 ` Stefan Kangas
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-12-04  3:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Göktuğ Kayaalp; +Cc: 29550

> From: Göktuğ Kayaalp <self@gkayaalp.com>
> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:19:45 +0300
> 
> I suggest that the command ‘not-modified’, bound by default to ‘M-~’, be
> disabled by default, as it can cause data loss and is easily triggered
> accidentally

FWIW, I use this command many times every day, with no data loss.
Just one data point.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2017-12-04  3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2017-12-04 17:58   ` Glenn Morris
  2017-12-05 10:06     ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
  2018-04-15 19:06     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2017-12-05  9:49   ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2017-12-04 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Göktuğ Kayaalp, 29550


Previous times this came up:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html
(a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter)

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html
(previous maintainer)

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html
(previous+N maintainer)

Obviously, this calls for a poll!

(Please don't have a poll.)





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2017-12-04  3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2017-12-04 17:58   ` Glenn Morris
@ 2017-12-05  9:49   ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Göktuğ Kayaalp @ 2017-12-05  9:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 29550

On 2017-12-04 05:37 +02, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Göktuğ Kayaalp <self@gkayaalp.com>
>> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:19:45 +0300
>> 
>> I suggest that the command ‘not-modified’, bound by default to ‘M-~’, be
>> disabled by default, as it can cause data loss and is easily triggered
>> accidentally
>
> FWIW, I use this command many times every day, with no data loss.
> Just one data point.
>

There probably are some disabled commands that each of us use all the
time.  ‘erase-buffer’, ‘upcase-region’ and ‘downcase-region’ are some
for me.  I think ‘not-modified’ is at least as risky as those commands
given it can be hit accidentally, maybe more easily, as I've said
previously, for someone using a keyboard where tilde is easily
(mis-)typed (in my British layout keyboard it's just to the left of the
big return button: jkl;' then #/~), and indeed would be «confusing for
beginners», quoting the disabled command buffer.  Also, from Glenn
Morris' message in this thread, there seems to be two other times in
history where a similar request to mine has been made.  If my patch is
refused I'll just have it disabled in my config, but I truly think that
this command, bound to a non-prefixed binding in the global map, is
potentially confusing and dangerous for who doesn't already know it,
beginner or not; if we have upcase/downcase-region disabled, this should
be disabled too.

-- 
İ. Göktuğ Kayaalp	<http://www.gkayaalp.com/>
			 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC
			 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2017-12-04 17:58   ` Glenn Morris
@ 2017-12-05 10:06     ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
  2018-04-15 19:06     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Göktuğ Kayaalp @ 2017-12-05 10:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 29550

On 2017-12-04 12:58 -05, Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote:
> Previous times this came up:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html
> (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter)
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html
> (previous maintainer)

Here we have a *maintainer* that has lost some data accidentally hitting
this key.

> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html
> (previous+N maintainer)
>
> Obviously, this calls for a poll!
>
> (Please don't have a poll.)

Why not?  It might be the case that this command has now became less
popular (for example it's not mentioned in the C-h t tutorial).  Given
how easy it's to re-enable it for its users, I see no reason for not
disabling it by default for protecting the uninitiated.  Quoting
"(emacs) Disabling":

,----
| Disabling a command means that invoking it interactively asks for
| confirmation from the user.  The purpose of disabling a command is to
| prevent users from executing it by accident; we do this for commands
| that might be confusing to the uninitiated.
`----

(on a side note, shouldn't ‘en/disable-command’ use ‘custom-file’ or
‘user-init-file’ instead of trying to locate .emacs itself?)

-- 
İ. Göktuğ Kayaalp	<http://www.gkayaalp.com/>
			 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC
			 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2017-12-04 17:58   ` Glenn Morris
  2017-12-05 10:06     ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
@ 2018-04-15 19:06     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2018-04-15 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: Göktuğ Kayaalp, 29550

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Previous times this came up:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html
> (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter)
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html
> (previous maintainer)
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html
> (previous+N maintainer)
>
> Obviously, this calls for a poll!
>
> (Please don't have a poll.)

:-)

I think it makes sense to have this command disabled by default.  It's a
lot more dangerous than several of the other commands that are
disabled...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2017-12-03 23:19 bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default Göktuğ Kayaalp
  2017-12-04  3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-09-29  0:06 ` Stefan Kangas
  2019-09-29  7:20   ` Eli Zaretskii
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-09-29  0:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Göktuğ Kayaalp, 29550

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1110 bytes --]

tags 29550 + patch
quit

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> Previous times this came up:
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html
>> (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter)
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html
>> (previous maintainer)
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html
>> (previous+N maintainer)
>>
>> Obviously, this calls for a poll!
>>
>> (Please don't have a poll.)
>
> :-)
>
> I think it makes sense to have this command disabled by default.  It's a
> lot more dangerous than several of the other commands that are
> disabled...

I agree with Lars here, and Stefan Monnier in the above thread, that
it should be disabled.

I don't really understand the basic controversy here.  It should at
worst be a minor inconvenience for anyone who do wish to use it, while
it could save many other users some big headaches.

So I'll just jump in at the deep end and ask... Are there any
objections to the attached patch?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

[-- Attachment #2: 0001-Disable-not-modified-command-by-default.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 892 bytes --]

From d676fbb543c04a7f258f564214812a627e609000 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 02:02:06 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Disable not-modified command by default

* lisp/files.el (not-modified): Disable command by
default.  (Bug#29550)
---
 lisp/files.el | 3 +++
 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+)

diff --git a/lisp/files.el b/lisp/files.el
index 09180fd555..f3bb23738d 100644
--- a/lisp/files.el
+++ b/lisp/files.el
@@ -5537,6 +5537,9 @@ clear-visited-file-modtime
 Next attempt to save will not complain of a discrepancy."
   (set-visited-file-modtime 0))
 
+;; This command could cause data loss for unsuspecting users.
+(put 'not-modified 'disabled t)
+
 (defun not-modified (&optional arg)
   "Mark current buffer as unmodified, not needing to be saved.
 With prefix ARG, mark buffer as modified, so \\[save-buffer] will save.
-- 
2.20.1


^ permalink raw reply related	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29  0:06 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2019-09-29  7:20   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2019-09-29  7:35     ` Stefan Kangas
  2019-09-29  8:01     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-09-29  7:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: self, larsi, 29550

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 02:06:55 +0200
> Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>, Göktuğ Kayaalp <self@gkayaalp.com>, 
> 	29550@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> 
> >> Previous times this came up:
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2005-04/msg00182.html
> >> (a prolific and, err, idiosyncratic reporter)
> >>
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00414.html
> >> (previous maintainer)
> >>
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-02/msg00395.html
> >> (previous+N maintainer)
> >>
> >> Obviously, this calls for a poll!
> >>
> >> (Please don't have a poll.)
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > I think it makes sense to have this command disabled by default.  It's a
> > lot more dangerous than several of the other commands that are
> > disabled...
> 
> I agree with Lars here, and Stefan Monnier in the above thread, that
> it should be disabled.
> 
> I don't really understand the basic controversy here.  It should at
> worst be a minor inconvenience for anyone who do wish to use it, while
> it could save many other users some big headaches.

The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a
lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by
default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often.

> So I'll just jump in at the deep end and ask... Are there any
> objections to the attached patch?

The previous discussions provide objections, don't they?





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29  7:20   ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-09-29  7:35     ` Stefan Kangas
  2019-09-29  7:59       ` Eli Zaretskii
  2019-09-29  8:01     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-09-29  7:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Göktuğ Kayaalp, Lars Ingebrigtsen, 29550

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a
> lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by
> default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often.

OK, that makes sense.  If that's a common use case, disabling it by
default might be more trouble than it's worth.

I suggest to close this bug report as wontfix to make the decision
against this proposal clear.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29  7:35     ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2019-09-29  7:59       ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-09-29  7:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: self, larsi, 29550

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 09:35:32 +0200
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>, Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>, Göktuğ Kayaalp <self@gkayaalp.com>, 
> 	29550@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> I suggest to close this bug report as wontfix to make the decision
> against this proposal clear.

Fine with me, thanks.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29  7:20   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2019-09-29  7:35     ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2019-09-29  8:01     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2019-09-29  8:28       ` Eli Zaretskii
  2019-09-29  8:58       ` Andreas Schwab
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2019-09-29  8:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: self, Stefan Kangas, 29550

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a
> lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by
> default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often.

Taking us poor people who work on Emacs into consideration is nice, but
shouldn't we prioritise how this works for the users?

I mean, the same argumentation could be used for a number of disabled
commands, like `narrow-to-region' which I use a lot and always have to
re-enable when I'm working in -Q.  And `not-modified' is much more
dangerous for users than `narrow-to-region', especially since it's bound
to a key people may hit by accident (`M-~'), while `narrow-to-region' is
much more difficult to do so with.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29  8:01     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2019-09-29  8:28       ` Eli Zaretskii
  2019-09-29  8:58       ` Andreas Schwab
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-09-29  8:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: self, stefan, 29550

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>,  rgm@gnu.org,  self@gkayaalp.com,
>   29550@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 10:01:48 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a
> > lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by
> > default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often.
> 
> Taking us poor people who work on Emacs into consideration is nice, but
> shouldn't we prioritise how this works for the users?

I just explained what's the controversy, that's all.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29  8:01     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2019-09-29  8:28       ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-09-29  8:58       ` Andreas Schwab
  2019-09-29 10:05         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2019-09-29  8:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: self, 29550, Stefan Kangas

On Sep 29 2019, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> The basic controversy here, from my POV, is that I use "emacs -Q" a
>> lot when working on bug reports, and having this command disabled by
>> default will be a nuisance because I use it VERY often.
>
> Taking us poor people who work on Emacs into consideration is nice, but
> shouldn't we prioritise how this works for the users?

How about adding a command that reenables all disabled commands?

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29  8:58       ` Andreas Schwab
@ 2019-09-29 10:05         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2019-10-04 18:38           ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2019-09-29 10:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: self, 29550, Stefan Kangas

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> How about adding a command that reenables all disabled commands?

That's possible, but I was also wondering whether there should be an
"emacs -Q-but-not-so-much" (or whatever) switch to Emacs, or a standard
common-maintainer-things.el file one could load.

But that's probably an endless rabbit hole to go down into, so I think
we should just settle on saying "-l my-maintainer-things.el"
individually for whatever we think is too annoying to deal with when
testing with -Q.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-09-29 10:05         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2019-10-04 18:38           ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
  2019-10-04 19:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Göktuğ Kayaalp @ 2019-10-04 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 29550, schwab, stefan

On 2019-09-29 12:05 +02, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
> Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:
>> How about adding a command that reenables all disabled commands?
> That's possible, but I was also wondering whether there should be an
> "emacs -Q-but-not-so-much" (or whatever) switch to Emacs, or a standard
> common-maintainer-things.el file one could load.
>
> But that's probably an endless rabbit hole to go down into, so I think
> we should just settle on saying "-l my-maintainer-things.el"
> individually for whatever we think is too annoying to deal with when
> testing with -Q.

Or, a flag like --maintainer-mode that enables all commands _and_
implies -Q and "-l $EMACS_MAINTAINER_RC" if found?

Frankly, I see no reason this issue is controversial: the command has
caused data loss for multiple people; accidental data loss and data
corruption is the worst thing that can happen to you in personal
computing, and accidentally hitting M-~ causes accidental data
loss/corruption in a very confusing way. "(emacs) Disabling" states:

> The purpose of disabling a command is to prevent users from executing
> it by accident; we do this for commands that might be confusing to the
> uninitiated.

In this light, it’s rather obvious what to do: protect users by
disabling this command.  The sole argument for keeping it enabled is
essentially the convenience of a single person.

Also, something like this

      emacs -Q -e "(enable-command 'not-modified)"

works for Eli’s case, you could just alias it to something like ‘emacsq’
or ‘emacs-Q’.

-- 
İ. Göktuğ Kayaalp	<https://www.gkayaalp.com/>
			 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC
			 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-10-04 18:38           ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
@ 2019-10-04 19:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
  2020-08-10 14:02               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-04 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Göktuğ Kayaalp; +Cc: 29550, schwab, larsi, stefan

> From: Göktuğ Kayaalp <self@gkayaalp.com>
> Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, eliz@gnu.org,  stefan@marxist.se,
>   29550@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 21:38:32 +0300
> 
> Also, something like this
> 
>       emacs -Q -e "(enable-command 'not-modified)"
> 
> works for Eli’s case, you could just alias it to something like ‘emacsq’
> or ‘emacs-Q’.

It's too late for me to re-train my muscle memory.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default
  2019-10-04 19:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-08-10 14:02               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-08-10 14:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Göktuğ Kayaalp, 29550, stefan, schwab

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Also, something like this
>> 
>>       emacs -Q -e "(enable-command 'not-modified)"
>> 
>> works for Eli’s case, you could just alias it to something like ‘emacsq’
>> or ‘emacs-Q’.
>
> It's too late for me to re-train my muscle memory.

It seems that we're not going to convince Eli of the real dangers of the
`M-~' command for Emacs users, so I'm closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-08-10 14:02 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2017-12-03 23:19 bug#29550: 27.0.50; `not-modified' should be disabled by default Göktuğ Kayaalp
2017-12-04  3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-12-04 17:58   ` Glenn Morris
2017-12-05 10:06     ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2018-04-15 19:06     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2017-12-05  9:49   ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2019-09-29  0:06 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-09-29  7:20   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-09-29  7:35     ` Stefan Kangas
2019-09-29  7:59       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-09-29  8:01     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-09-29  8:28       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-09-29  8:58       ` Andreas Schwab
2019-09-29 10:05         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-10-04 18:38           ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2019-10-04 19:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-10 14:02               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen

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