bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[André A. Gomes]

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Hi Emacs,

Please find a refcard patch attached.


--
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

[-- Attachment #2: 0001-Fix-C-k-description-in-refcards.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 5711 bytes --]

From faf697747be7857900e5c7f9eaa01e477d3b6fe1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?Andr=C3=A9=20A=2E=20Gomes?= <andremegafone@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:25:51 +0300
Subject: [PATCH] Fix C-k description in refcards.

C-0 C-k is much easier to type than M-0 C-k.
---
 etc/refcards/cs-refcard.tex    | 2 +-
 etc/refcards/de-refcard.tex    | 2 +-
 etc/refcards/fr-refcard.tex    | 2 +-
 etc/refcards/pl-refcard.tex    | 4 ++--
 etc/refcards/pt-br-refcard.tex | 2 +-
 etc/refcards/refcard.tex       | 2 +-
 etc/refcards/ru-refcard.tex    | 2 +-
 etc/refcards/sk-refcard.tex    | 2 +-
 8 files changed, 9 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-)

diff --git a/etc/refcards/cs-refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/cs-refcard.tex
index 4d9a8b34ae..f778cc47d5 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/cs-refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/cs-refcard.tex
@@ -354,7 +354,7 @@ \section{Rušení a mazání}
 \threecol{{\bf rušený objekt }}{{\bf dozadu}}{{\bf dopředu}}
 \threecol{znak (mazání, ne rušení)}{DEL}{C-d}
 \threecol{slovo}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-\threecol{řádek (do konce)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+\threecol{řádek (do konce)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 \threecol{věta}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 \threecol{symbolický výraz}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 }
diff --git a/etc/refcards/de-refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/de-refcard.tex
index 9cd0df7a5e..73ce25efb9 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/de-refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/de-refcard.tex
@@ -357,7 +357,7 @@ \section{L\"oschen und Ausschneiden}
 \threecol{{\bf Textteile ausschneiden}}{{\bf r\"uckw.}}{{\bf vorw.}}
 \threecol{Zeichen (l\"oschen, nicht ausschneiden)}{DEL}{C-d}
 \threecol{Wort}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-\threecol{Zeile (bis zum Ende)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+\threecol{Zeile (bis zum Ende)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 \threecol{Satz}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 \threecol{Lisp-s-expression}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 }
diff --git a/etc/refcards/fr-refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/fr-refcard.tex
index ad6db6340d..db06d46d63 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/fr-refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/fr-refcard.tex
@@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ \section{D\'etruire et supprimer}
 \threecol{{\bf Objet \`a supprimer}}{{\bf En arri\`ere}}{{\bf En avant}}
 \threecol{Caract\`ere (suppression)}{DEL}{C-d}
 \threecol{Mot}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-\threecol{Ligne (jusqu'au d\'ebut/fin)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+\threecol{Ligne (jusqu'au d\'ebut/fin)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 \threecol{Phrase}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 \threecol{S-expression}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 }
diff --git a/etc/refcards/pl-refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/pl-refcard.tex
index 5c12dbfbf5..e00a095f93 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/pl-refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/pl-refcard.tex
@@ -456,13 +456,13 @@ \section{Kasowanie i usuwanie}
 %\threecol{{\bf entity to kill}}{{\bf backward}}{{\bf forward}}
 %\threecol{character (delete, not kill)}{DEL}{C-d}
 %\threecol{word}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-%\threecol{line (to end of)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+%\threecol{line (to end of)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 %\threecol{sentence}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 %\threecol{sexp}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 \threecolheader{{\bf obiekt do skasowania}}{{\bf wstecz}}{{\bf wprz/od}}
 \threecol{znak (usu/n, nie kasuj)}{DEL}{C-d}
 \threecol{s/lowo}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-\threecol{linia (od kursora do ko/nca)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+\threecol{linia (od kursora do ko/nca)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 \threecol{zdanie}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 \threecol{s-wyra/zenie}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 }
diff --git a/etc/refcards/pt-br-refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/pt-br-refcard.tex
index 9226a6d8fb..c08ddd799d 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/pt-br-refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/pt-br-refcard.tex
@@ -361,7 +361,7 @@ \section{Cortando e Apagando}
 \threecol{{\bf entidade a cortar}}{{\bf tr{\'a}s}}{{\bf frente}}
 \threecol{caracter (apaga, n{\~a}o corta)}{DEL}{C-d}
 \threecol{palavra}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-\threecol{linha (at{\'e} o final)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+\threecol{linha (at{\'e} o final)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 \threecol{senten{\c{c}}a}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 \threecol{sexp}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 }
diff --git a/etc/refcards/refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/refcard.tex
index bc057569a7..3ce44c5b7d 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/refcard.tex
@@ -367,7 +367,7 @@ \section{Killing and Deleting}
 \threecol{{\bf entity to kill}}{{\bf backward}}{{\bf forward}}
 \threecol{character (delete, not kill)}{DEL}{C-d}
 \threecol{word}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-\threecol{line (to end of)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+\threecol{line (to end of)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 \threecol{sentence}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 \threecol{sexp}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 }
diff --git a/etc/refcards/ru-refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/ru-refcard.tex
index 018be36eb4..39067ee24b 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/ru-refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/ru-refcard.tex
@@ -174,7 +174,7 @@ \section{Уничтожение и удаление}
 {\bf уничтожаемый объект} & {\bf назад} & {\bf вперед} \\
 символ (удаление, а не уничтожение) & \kbd{DEL} & \kbd{C-d} \\
 слово & \kbd{M-DEL} & \kbd{M-d} \\
-строка (до конца строки) & \kbd{M-0 C-k} & \kbd{C-k} \\
+строка (до конца строки) & \kbd{C-0 C-k} & \kbd{C-k} \\
 предложение & \kbd{C-x DEL} & \kbd{M-k} \\
 выражение & \kbd{M-- C-M-k} & \kbd{C-M-k} \\
 \end{tabular}
diff --git a/etc/refcards/sk-refcard.tex b/etc/refcards/sk-refcard.tex
index bda808f232..ca0cf98c74 100644
--- a/etc/refcards/sk-refcard.tex
+++ b/etc/refcards/sk-refcard.tex
@@ -354,7 +354,7 @@ \section{Rušenie a mazanie}
 \threecol{{\bf rušený objekt }}{{\bf vzad}}{{\bf vpred}}
 \threecol{znak (mazanie, nie rušenie)}{DEL}{C-d}
 \threecol{slovo}{M-DEL}{M-d}
-\threecol{riadok (do konca)}{M-0 C-k}{C-k}
+\threecol{riadok (do konca)}{C-0 C-k}{C-k}
 \threecol{veta}{C-x DEL}{M-k}
 \threecol{symbolický výraz}{M-- C-M-k}{C-M-k}
 }
-- 
2.33.1

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:31:29 +0300
> 
> Please find a refcard patch attached.

Thanks, but what is the reason for the change?  M-0 invokes the same
command as C-0.

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[Eli Zaretskii]

[Please use Reply All to keep the bug tracker on the CC list.]

> From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:13:30 +0300
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Thanks, but what is the reason for the change?  M-0 invokes the same
> > command as C-0.
> 
> As stated in the commit message, it's easier to type C-0 C-k than M-0
> C-k.  
> 
> Mickey Peterson in his book "Mastering Emacs", calls such a thing
> "maintaining the tempo".  For example, "C-- M-d" and "M-- M-d" are
> equivalent, but the latter is much easier to type.  The former is said
> to "break the tempo".

But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
former.

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[André A. Gomes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> As stated in the commit message, it's easier to type C-0 C-k than M-0
>> C-k.  
>> 
>> Mickey Peterson in his book "Mastering Emacs", calls such a thing
>> "maintaining the tempo".  For example, "C-- M-d" and "M-- M-d" are
>> equivalent, but the latter is much easier to type.  The former is said
>> to "break the tempo".
>
> But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
> whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
> former.

I see.  I wasn't aware of that.

Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?


-- 
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone@gmail.com>
> Cc: 51847@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:35:51 +0300
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> As stated in the commit message, it's easier to type C-0 C-k than M-0
> >> C-k.  
> >> 
> >> Mickey Peterson in his book "Mastering Emacs", calls such a thing
> >> "maintaining the tempo".  For example, "C-- M-d" and "M-- M-d" are
> >> equivalent, but the latter is much easier to type.  The former is said
> >> to "break the tempo".
> >
> > But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
> > whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
> > former.
> 
> I see.  I wasn't aware of that.
> 
> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?

I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> > But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
>> > whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
>> > former.
>> 
>> I see.  I wasn't aware of that.
>> 
>> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
>
> I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?

We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[André A. Gomes]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> > But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
>>> > whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
>>> > former.
>>>
>>> I see.  I wasn't aware of that.
>>>
>>> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
>>
>> I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?
>
> We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
> both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
> this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.

We agree.

But the question at hand is if the patch (yet to be sent by me) that
replaces "M-0 C-k" by "C-u 0 C-k" would be accepted.


--
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: André A. Gomes <andremegafone@gmail.com>,
>   51847@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:30:13 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
> >
> > I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?
> 
> We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
> both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
> this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.

That's true and agreed, but "C-u 0 C-k" works on TTY as well.  So the
question is would it be better to replace "M-0 C-k" with "C-u 0 C-k".

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> >> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
>> >
>> > I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?
>> 
>> We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
>> both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
>> this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.
>
> That's true and agreed, but "C-u 0 C-k" works on TTY as well.  So the
> question is would it be better to replace "M-0 C-k" with "C-u 0 C-k".

Sorry; I missed that you'd changed what you were discussing.

Uhm...  I dunno.  The two are about equally awkward to type, so I'm not
sure changing it is an improvement.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[André A. Gomes]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> That's true and agreed, but "C-u 0 C-k" works on TTY as well.  So the
>> question is would it be better to replace "M-0 C-k" with "C-u 0 C-k".
>
> Sorry; I missed that you'd changed what you were discussing.
>
> Uhm...  I dunno.  The two are about equally awkward to type, so I'm not
> sure changing it is an improvement.

As I mentioned before in this thread, M-0 C-k "breaks the tempo", while
C-u 0 C-k doesn't.


-- 
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

André A. Gomes <andremegafone@gmail.com> writes:

>> Uhm...  I dunno.  The two are about equally awkward to type, so I'm not
>> sure changing it is an improvement.
>
> As I mentioned before in this thread, M-0 C-k "breaks the tempo", while
> C-u 0 C-k doesn't.

I think there wasn't much enthusiasm for changing this, as neither seems
to be clearly superior to the other, so I'm closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no