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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
To: "Mattias Engdegård" <mattiase@acm.org>
Cc: Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>, 24902@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:39:41 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <B3D5F92B-A075-4B7D-AFB9-E1477363A993@acm.org> ("Mattias Engdegård"'s message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:29:22 +0100")

Mattias Engdegård <mattiase@acm.org> writes:

> 1. It doesn't fit the problem very well: neither the traditional nor
> the new format are easily expressed with format-spec since they are
> conditional in several ways (fields or strings that appear depending
> on the circumstances). In contrast, conditions are easily expressible
> in Lisp.

The format we're settling on doesn't have to be identical to the one we
have today.  Defaulting to, say, the

Char: e (101, #o145, #x65) point=818 of 2005 (41%) column=60

might be OK.

> 2. Even if we went through the contortions to make formats expressible
> in format-spec, it still wouldn't be very easy to do so, especially
> compared to choosing a ready-made format. For more advanced
> customisation, Lisp is probably preferable.

Writing code is always better for programmers, but non-programmers can
put together format-spec things easier.

> 3. As any designer knows, customisability is a cop-out: it's an
> abdication of responsibility. The user can now conveniently be blamed
> for any perceived shortcoming. Conversely, being forced to think and
> make hard choices is much of what design is about, and users like when
> it's done for them in a competent way.

I know what you mean, but of course I want to have a good default.  I
just doubt that there's any point in adding more than one "standard
format" -- people that want to tweak stuff like this really wants to
tweak stuff like this.  Trying to figure out all formats a user might
want is futile (and ultimately user-hostile).

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





  reply	other threads:[~2022-01-24 17:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-11-08 12:02 bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Ulrich Windl
2016-11-08 12:23 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-11-08 13:49   ` bug#24902: Antw: " Ulrich Windl
2016-11-08 19:53     ` Phil Sainty
2016-11-10  4:56       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-11-10  7:23         ` Mark Oteiza
2016-11-08 12:25 ` Phil Sainty
2022-01-23 16:20 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-23 16:56   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2022-01-23 18:44 ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-24  9:21   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-24 10:40     ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-24 11:00       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-24 11:27         ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-24 14:09         ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-24 16:06         ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-24 16:28           ` bug#24902: [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-24 16:35           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-24 17:29             ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-24 17:39               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen [this message]
2022-01-25 15:38                 ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-25 16:41                   ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-25 17:15                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-25 18:00                     ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-25 18:11                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                       ` <C2E2A281020000A84D5C4BFC@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
     [not found]                         ` <469D64F5020000015C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
     [not found]                           ` <D3C7A175020000FA5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
     [not found]                             ` <A9CE96C702000053824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
     [not found]                               ` <A7201B24020000235C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
2022-01-26  7:09                                 ` bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] " Ulrich Windl
     [not found]                             ` <DD8FDCE7020000A54D5C4BFC@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
     [not found]                               ` <0106AEA10200006A824A10E1@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
2022-01-26 14:09                                 ` Ulrich Windl
2022-01-26 16:53                                   ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-26 17:25                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-27 15:39                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-27 17:11                                       ` Juri Linkov
2022-01-28 13:09                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-01-28 14:37                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-28 17:05                                             ` bug#24902: [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-29 14:34                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-29 14:57                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-30 15:47                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-30 16:46                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-31  9:59                                                     ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-31 15:27                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-31 16:46                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-31 17:00                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-31 18:00                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-01  5:06                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-01-31 17:40                                                   ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-31 17:45                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-31 18:15                                                       ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-31 18:30                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-28 13:45                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-28 14:16                                       ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-28 17:05                                         ` bug#24902: [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-29 14:32                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-29 16:47                                           ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-30 15:50                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
     [not found]                                 ` <13FDBD490200009C5C413831@gwsmtp.uni-regensburg.de>
     [not found]                                   ` <6?= =?UTF-8?Q?1F261F5020?= =?UTF-8?Q?000A100047?= =?UTF-8?Q?30B@gwsmtp?= =?UTF-8?Q?.uni-regen?= =?UTF-8?Q?sburg.de>
2022-01-27  9:12                                   ` bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C‑x " Ulrich Windl
2022-01-27  9:43                                     ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-27 10:11                                       ` bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C‑x= " Ulrich Windl
2022-01-27 10:20                                         ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-27 12:38                                       ` bug#24902: Antw: [EXT] Re: bug#24902: 25.1; C‑x = " Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-27 13:24                                         ` Ulrich Windl
2022-01-27  9:59                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-26 13:10                   ` bug#24902: 25.1; C-x " Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-26 13:35                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-26 13:46                     ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-26 14:07                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-26 13:48                     ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-26 17:02                       ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-01-24 11:16       ` Robert Pluim

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