From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24902: 25.1; C-x = for Unicode Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:39:41 +0100 Message-ID: <877dap3uea.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87a6fl5w11.fsf@gnus.org> <14F24EE3-901E-4622-8210-6C4F2134E9BA@acm.org> <87czkh1jqo.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmoh3xdk.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21984"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Ulrich Windl , 24902@debbugs.gnu.org To: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 24 19:11:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nC3or-0005Wd-3N for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nC3Jf-0001m3-9r; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:39:45 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEUIBgNGSVskIy5n epy/0+D///8bBB/0AAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YBGBEbKsttz/QAAAGlSURBVDjLlZPr laMwDIWFMwVgmwKMSQERUgM5Vv817ZUddsiEPWdH+QP6oteVIPq1TXHYB1hrt/UDbP+MiDGtL1DL dapJ235KJcPwuJjZd8zGkvEDmOC3+aLdG/ytg1rf+xNWB8FrnkGO8zIXCuWdhOS1EzI2tH8CG2ev Uby3+gKrMHrdATjPJGb72kFVswfd96zWphLQ3bO6BqEiBdPt6SCicrQ2AgagmAVly9KQwKQcAG2K GNfJOtDHAM9QqOaM+b46aAtACZ6p0ubpS1hEh2aBoRGvMwbpymoHMmNQD9UnpPK5aXP/vs10Fx9Y raApX+OqPqciQ3OQ7fFKhQiJiuDNS4ns5bXyjNbvJgDsBMsOUG93lSnoAC43zyOUjmx4V5jJTvkA ExpGPeBWYwc6ABTwK7o5oJqCFDQzdt+vC8D6w0J5gCmN80EE+6OyaKPvgzvArXftS/57HioR/7sP fz7fdXTgc7SY5Ay6FpP7Y2b6adChSVx2+iT4Fvjt0zn8TSXFcpVKYuVPQGsqIV8BV6XxlRubugZL X+SFbf1SrwAn+g/7A3/eY6An34HAAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTAxLTI0VDE3OjI3 OjQyKzAwOjAwvDqpLwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wMS0yNFQxNzoyNzo0MiswMDow MM1nEZMAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Kraftwerk's _Electric Cafe_: "The Telephone Call" In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?="'s message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:29:22 +0100") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:225085 Archived-At: Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > 1. It doesn't fit the problem very well: neither the traditional nor > the new format are easily expressed with format-spec since they are > conditional in several ways (fields or strings that appear depending > on the circumstances). In contrast, conditions are easily expressible > in Lisp. The format we're settling on doesn't have to be identical to the one we have today. Defaulting to, say, the Char: e (101, #o145, #x65) point=3D818 of 2005 (41%) column=3D60 might be OK. > 2. Even if we went through the contortions to make formats expressible > in format-spec, it still wouldn't be very easy to do so, especially > compared to choosing a ready-made format. For more advanced > customisation, Lisp is probably preferable. Writing code is always better for programmers, but non-programmers can put together format-spec things easier. > 3. As any designer knows, customisability is a cop-out: it's an > abdication of responsibility. The user can now conveniently be blamed > for any perceived shortcoming. Conversely, being forced to think and > make hard choices is much of what design is about, and users like when > it's done for them in a competent way. I know what you mean, but of course I want to have a good default. I just doubt that there's any point in adding more than one "standard format" -- people that want to tweak stuff like this really wants to tweak stuff like this. Trying to figure out all formats a user might want is futile (and ultimately user-hostile). --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no