bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Eli Zaretskii]

I restarted Emacs today on one of my machines (because I built a new
version), and suddenly some of the files I worked on in the previous
session were not visited by Emacs.  It took time for me to find which
files I was working on, because I don't keep records of all of the
files I have in my session: I trust desktop.el to do that.

Looking in desktop.el, I see that desktop-buffers-not-to-save
intentionally omits buffers whose names end in ".log" and a couple
others.  Sure thing, the files that were not visited after restarting
ended in ".log".

I think that variable's default should be nil.  I think it is up to
the user to decide that she doesn't want to record some of the
buffers/files.  It is no business of desktop.el to decide for the
user.  Especially since there is no way of telling desktop.el to
override the value of desktop-buffers-not-to-save for some specific
buffer, short of renaming the buffer.

Similarly with desktop-files-not-to-save: its default should be nil,
IMO.


In GNU Emacs 23.0.96.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2009-07-11 on HOME-C4E4A596F7
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)'

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: ENU
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: cp1255
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Mail

Minor modes in effect:
  flyspell-mode: t
  desktop-save-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  global-auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  temp-buffer-resize-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  abbrev-mode: t

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Chong Yidong]

> Looking in desktop.el, I see that desktop-buffers-not-to-save
> intentionally omits buffers whose names end in ".log" and a couple
> others.  Sure thing, the files that were not visited after restarting
> ended in ".log".
>
> I think that variable's default should be nil.  I think it is up to
> the user to decide that she doesn't want to record some of the
> buffers/files.  It is no business of desktop.el to decide for the
> user.  Especially since there is no way of telling desktop.el to
> override the value of desktop-buffers-not-to-save for some specific
> buffer, short of renaming the buffer.

I agree that .log should be removed.  However, the two other items seem
to make sense: Gnus and FTP sessions, because desktop.el can't recreate
those.  If you'd like to remove .log, please go ahead and do so on the
trunk.

> Similarly with desktop-files-not-to-save: its default should be nil,
> IMO.

These are remote (Tramp/ange-ftp) files.  Again, I think the rationale
is that desktop.el can't recreate them properly.

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Cc: 3833@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:44:27 -0400
> 
> I agree that .log should be removed.  However, the two other items seem
> to make sense: Gnus and FTP sessions, because desktop.el can't recreate
> those.

The fact that Gnus makes buffers named nn.a7 does not mean there
cannot be a file or buffer by that name that has nothing to do with
Gnus.  Likewise, there can legitimately be a file or buffer named
literally "(ftp)".

If these are names of buffers that many users would like to omit, we
can make them one of the choices we offer, but I don't think we should
make them the default.

Also, I think desktop.el should check that buffers mentioned in
desktop-buffers-not-to-save don't have an associated file.  Files
should be mentioned in desktop-files-not-to-save.

> If you'd like to remove .log, please go ahead and do so on the
> trunk.

Done.

> > Similarly with desktop-files-not-to-save: its default should be nil,
> > IMO.
> 
> These are remote (Tramp/ange-ftp) files.

Only mostly so.  They can be regular files as well.

> Again, I think the rationale is that desktop.el can't recreate them
> properly.

Why not?  If they exist on the remote host, I think it can.

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Reiner Steib]

On Sun, Jul 12 2009, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>

[ desktop-buffers-not-to-save ] 
>> I agree that .log should be removed.  However, the two other items seem
>> to make sense: Gnus and FTP sessions, because desktop.el can't recreate
>> those.
>
> The fact that Gnus makes buffers named nn.a7 does not mean there
> cannot be a file or buffer by that name that has nothing to do with
> Gnus.  

BTW, I can't find a place in Gnus that creates buffers matching
"^nn\\.a[0-9]+".

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Juri Linkov]

>> I think that variable's default should be nil.  I think it is up to
>> the user to decide that she doesn't want to record some of the
>> buffers/files.  It is no business of desktop.el to decide for the
>> user.  Especially since there is no way of telling desktop.el to
>> override the value of desktop-buffers-not-to-save for some specific
>> buffer, short of renaming the buffer.
>
> I agree that .log should be removed.  However, the two other items seem
> to make sense: Gnus and FTP sessions, because desktop.el can't recreate
> those.  If you'd like to remove .log, please go ahead and do so on the
> trunk.

I find the value ".log" useful because it helps not to load usually
large log files, but I agree that this should be a personal preference
because it is natural to expect that desktop.el will restore all files
it can recreate.

As for Gnus and FTP sessions, we could try to ignore them using
`desktop-modes-not-to-save' or `desktop-buffer-mode-handlers'
if they have a non-default mode.

>> Similarly with desktop-files-not-to-save: its default should be nil,
>> IMO.
>
> These are remote (Tramp/ange-ftp) files.  Again, I think the rationale
> is that desktop.el can't recreate them properly.

recentf.el uses two predicates `file-remote-p' and `file-readable-p' to
decide which files should be kept.  Maybe desktop.el should do the same?

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Chong Yidong]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> BTW, I can't find a place in Gnus that creates buffers matching
> "^nn\\.a[0-9]+".

I guess I was mistaken.  No idea what those buffers match.

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Cc: 3833@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:06:10 -0400
> 
> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> 
> > BTW, I can't find a place in Gnus that creates buffers matching
> > "^nn\\.a[0-9]+".
> 
> I guess I was mistaken.  No idea what those buffers match.

OK to remove that as well?

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Chong Yidong]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
>> Cc: 3833@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
>> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:06:10 -0400
>>
>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>>
>> > BTW, I can't find a place in Gnus that creates buffers matching
>> > "^nn\\.a[0-9]+".
>>
>> I guess I was mistaken.  No idea what those buffers match.
>
> OK to remove that as well?

This is the original ChangeLog entry.  Ring any bells to you?

  1994-02-04  Morten Welinder  (terra@tyr.diku.dk)

    * desktop.el (desktop-buffers-not-to-save): Add regexp for "nn"
    temporary files.

If not, it's probably historical baggage, so let's delete it.

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Cc: 3833@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:30:00 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> >> Cc: 3833@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
> >> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:06:10 -0400
> >>
> >> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> >>
> >> > BTW, I can't find a place in Gnus that creates buffers matching
> >> > "^nn\\.a[0-9]+".
> >>
> >> I guess I was mistaken.  No idea what those buffers match.
> >
> > OK to remove that as well?
> 
> This is the original ChangeLog entry.  Ring any bells to you?

No, but we can ask Morten.

Morten, do you remember anything about why you added "^nn\\.a[0-9]+"
to desktop-buffers-not-to-save?  Here's the log entry:

>   1994-02-04  Morten Welinder  (terra@tyr.diku.dk)
> 
>     * desktop.el (desktop-buffers-not-to-save): Add regexp for "nn"
>     temporary files.
> 
> If not, it's probably historical baggage, so let's delete it.

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Stefan Monnier]

> Also, I think desktop.el should check that buffers mentioned in
> desktop-buffers-not-to-save don't have an associated file.  Files
> should be mentioned in desktop-files-not-to-save.

That's the actually bug to fix, yes.


        Stefan

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:48:02 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: 3833@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
> 
> > >> > BTW, I can't find a place in Gnus that creates buffers matching
> > >> > "^nn\\.a[0-9]+".
> > >>
> > >> I guess I was mistaken.  No idea what those buffers match.
> > >
> > > OK to remove that as well?
> > 
> > This is the original ChangeLog entry.  Ring any bells to you?
> 
> No, but we can ask Morten.
> 
> Morten, do you remember anything about why you added "^nn\\.a[0-9]+"
> to desktop-buffers-not-to-save?  Here's the log entry:
> 
> >   1994-02-04  Morten Welinder  (terra@tyr.diku.dk)
> > 
> >     * desktop.el (desktop-buffers-not-to-save): Add regexp for "nn"
> >     temporary files.
> > 
> > If not, it's probably historical baggage, so let's delete it.

Morten replied (in a private email) that this goes back to the "No
News" newsreader, which is now RIP.

So unless someone hollers, I will remove the "^nn\\.a[0-9]+" pattern
from desktop-buffers-not-to-save.

bug#3833: 23.0.96; Default for desktop-buffers-not-to-save omits files

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: 3833@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com,  Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:03:45 -0400
> 
> > Also, I think desktop.el should check that buffers mentioned in
> > desktop-buffers-not-to-save don't have an associated file.  Files
> > should be mentioned in desktop-files-not-to-save.
> 
> That's the actually bug to fix, yes.

Done.