From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
Cc: 52870@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#52870: Is displaying <menu-bar> bindings in describe-function useful?
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:15:31 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83tueqimwc.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=Q37xXvuDBmpH6e9kTrdNOcj2Q_b_Z+wCDtDV_HbQG+w@mail.gmail.com> (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:19:32 -0800)
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:19:32 -0800
> Cc: 52870@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > If by b) you mean to push the menu binding to the very end, where it
> > will probably not seen at all,
>
> You would only ever need to see it in specific situations.
You assume that people don't have any use for these bindings, but that
is not necessarily so.
> Furthermore, screens are at least 80x24 ( more these days, I guess) so
> we can usually fit the entire documentation on one screen.
I don't see how the screen size is relevant. The Help window can be a
small window, and users (like me) sometimes limit them in their
maximum size. So the last part can well be invisible unless one
scrolls the window to the end.
> I suspect for many users, that line will be worse than useless, as it is
> hardly immediately clear what e.g. "<menu-bar> <help-menu> <describe>
> <describe-function>" is even supposed to mean. It looks like
> line-noise.
That is not a catastrophe. By contrast, _not_ seeing that information
could be a catastrophe, in that the user may not be aware of the
menu-bar binding.
> BTW, it is even worse for describe-function:
>
> describe-function is an autoloaded interactive compiled Lisp function in
> ‘help-fns.el’.
>
> It is bound to <menu-bar> <help-menu> <describe> <describe-function>.
>
> We don't even get to see `C-h f' here.
That's an issue I'd like us to fix, but it is not directly related to
what we are discussing here. (And I cannot reproduce this on my
system, FWIW: I do see "C-h f" and "F1 f".) There's no argument that
keyboard bindings should be shown when they exist.
However, I could turn the table and ask you whether you think it's
reasonable to put the menu-bar bindings at the end for functions that
have no other bindings but the menu-bar? If you do that, the user
could think the command has no binding at all, until and unless he/she
reads all the way to the end of the Help text.
> > But banishing that to after the version where the command was
> > introduced doesn't sound like something I could agree to by default.
>
> What is your rationale for this? Is it easier to accept if it is before
> the "Probably introduced" line?
The rationale is that hardly anyone ever looks at the "Probably
introduced" line. Before it is slightly better, but not good enough:
some doc strings are very long, so the menu-bar bindings will be
pushed too far.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-12-30 7:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-12-29 12:40 bug#52870: Is displaying <menu-bar> bindings in describe-function useful? Stefan Kangas
2021-12-29 13:08 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-29 13:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-29 14:49 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-12-29 16:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-29 20:19 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-12-29 21:01 ` bug#52870: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-12-30 7:15 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-12-30 15:43 ` Drew Adams
2022-01-15 10:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-15 10:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-20 11:02 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-15 10:29 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-15 12:09 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-01-15 22:50 ` bug#52870: [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-01-15 23:44 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-01-16 2:59 ` Drew Adams
2022-01-15 22:37 ` Drew Adams
2021-12-29 15:25 ` Drew Adams
2022-04-25 19:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-04-28 6:49 ` Juri Linkov
2022-04-28 10:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
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