From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>
To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@gmail.com>,
Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>
Cc: Attila Lendvai <attila@lendvai.name>,
Andreas Enge <andreas@enge.fr>,
Katherine Cox-Buday <cox.katherine.e@gmail.com>,
guix-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:36:04 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87fs3lj8tn.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <fe9c77e8f2f55bb0cd07946c23eff2f8f662a754.camel@gmail.com>
Hi Liliana,
On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 at 00:20, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Must we force a single workflow on everyone, even if our track
>> > > record in reviewing and merging doesn’t clearly show that our way
>> > > is superior
>> >
>> > Again, define superior.
>>
>> No, I won’t. I think it’s obvious that our review process isn’t
>> working *well*. So the argument that our current workflow allows for
>> effective review is dubious. Not saying that you made that claim,
>> just that it’s hard to convince others of adopting our ways when the
>> results just aren’t great.
>
> What do you consider "the results" here? The rate at which patches are
> merged? This is hardly an issue our project alone is fighting and I'm
> not convinced that technology, more or less, will shift it in either
> direction.
That’s not about “result” here. That’s about “simple vs easy” or
“complex can be easy” or etc.
Similarly as submitting patches means that many steps are more or less
simple, then the complete process can be considered as relatively
complex. To be explicit, I do not speak about being “easy” which is
subjective and instead I am speaking about some objective criteria
(e.g., the number of steps even if they are trivial).
Some part of that complexity has some value for the project and some
other part has no value. The question is thus to identify and then
remove (or hide) the complexity that has no value for the project.
Today, the review and commit process have many steps, more or less
simple, not all sure!, well at the end, we have something complex.
One trivial step is to apply the patch (or series) to your local
checkout and so many things can lead to some useless frictions. For
example, the patch does not apply because the base commit is not
provided, or because it is badly formatted, or because…. And one ends
to fix themself, e.g., probably using some manual trick just for
applying the patch. No value for the project.
Yes, QA is currently helping for that specific example about applying
patches but the solution depends on why the patch does not apply.
Well, I am not saying that we should switch to PR model using
GitHub. :-) Let just recognize that our current workflow has many
drawbacks that make some frictions (steps with no value) for reviewing.
And PR model à la GitHub has many other drawbacks but at least it
reduces some frictions (technical steps with no value); mainly because
some people are paid for removing (or hide) these useless friction.
Don’t you agree that the review process implies many manual steps that
have no value for the project?
Last, I agree that the main issue when speaking about the reviewing
process is not about tooling. The lack of a smooth technical solution
is just acting as a chemical developing solution in photography, it
increases the contrast and makes the poor image apparent.
Cheers,
simon
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-09-11 11:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 267+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-08-23 16:25 How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-23 17:27 ` Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-08-23 18:03 ` Andreas Enge
2023-08-25 8:07 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-08-25 9:16 ` Andreas Enge
2023-08-25 9:57 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-08-25 23:56 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-25 14:44 ` Wilko Meyer
2023-08-26 14:37 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-08-27 12:07 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-08-27 13:57 ` Saku Laesvuori
2023-08-27 17:08 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-08-29 10:04 ` MSavoritias
2023-08-29 11:05 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-05 15:33 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-05 19:16 ` Csepp
2023-09-05 20:43 ` Simon Tournier
2023-08-29 3:00 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-05 16:01 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-05 17:01 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-05 18:18 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-05 18:40 ` (
2023-09-05 20:43 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-05 22:04 ` wolf
2023-09-06 18:42 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-08 15:39 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-08 22:56 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-06 9:41 ` Josselin Poiret
2023-09-08 14:20 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-10 9:35 ` Efraim Flashner
2023-09-11 10:34 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-06 20:10 ` Wojtek Kosior via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-17 8:01 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-07 20:38 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-07 20:52 ` Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-17 8:07 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-05 23:41 ` brian via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-06 16:53 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-06 17:52 ` Vagrant Cascadian
2023-09-06 18:27 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-06 18:49 ` Christopher Baines
2023-09-08 9:16 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-08 16:56 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-06 19:11 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-05 22:57 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-06 2:34 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-06 9:07 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-07 20:39 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-09 12:32 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-11 12:19 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-12 15:35 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-12 15:35 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-09 17:14 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-11 12:37 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-11 21:25 ` Csepp
2023-09-12 9:09 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-12 11:09 ` Csepp
2023-09-12 14:51 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-17 12:39 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-08 10:25 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-06 19:01 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-08 9:53 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-08 11:28 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-08 12:40 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-12 16:05 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-12 16:05 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-13 7:57 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-13 9:28 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-12 16:08 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-12 16:08 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-08 12:09 ` Efraim Flashner
2023-09-08 16:54 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-06 2:49 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-06 22:16 ` kiasoc5
2023-09-08 15:27 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-08 19:22 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-08 20:37 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-12 16:18 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-12 16:18 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-09 10:01 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-09 19:45 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-08-28 8:15 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-08-28 17:00 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-08-30 7:37 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-08-29 9:29 ` MSavoritias
2023-08-29 19:29 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-08 14:44 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-08 18:50 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-08 20:24 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-08 23:26 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-09 19:40 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-09 22:20 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-11 10:36 ` Simon Tournier [this message]
2023-09-11 17:53 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-11 18:50 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-12 14:42 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-12 16:57 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-13 15:31 ` to PR or not to PR, is /that/ the question? Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-13 22:02 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-14 6:53 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-14 7:30 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-17 16:20 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? MSavoritias
2023-09-17 16:35 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-18 9:37 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-18 16:35 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-18 17:13 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-18 17:39 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-18 19:20 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-18 20:28 ` Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-18 19:47 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-17 15:50 ` MSavoritias
2023-08-25 23:48 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-27 8:35 ` Josselin Poiret
2023-08-25 23:31 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-23 20:48 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-08-25 9:03 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-08-27 3:27 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-02 22:11 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-03 1:05 ` Vagrant Cascadian
2023-09-04 8:56 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-04 15:10 ` Efraim Flashner
2023-09-05 2:18 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-05 7:21 ` Replacing Mumi+Debbugs? Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-05 13:12 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Csepp
2023-09-05 20:30 ` Wilko Meyer
2023-08-23 22:04 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-08-23 22:37 ` Jack Hill
2023-08-24 0:18 ` Csepp
2023-08-25 0:10 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2023-08-26 0:16 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-28 21:46 ` paul
2023-08-26 0:06 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-27 3:00 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-08-27 8:37 ` Josselin Poiret
2023-08-28 9:44 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-08-27 2:50 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-08-29 22:40 ` Csepp
2023-08-30 2:46 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-08-28 8:52 ` Simon Tournier
2023-08-24 3:33 ` Ahmed Khanzada via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-08-26 0:25 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-24 6:33 ` (
2023-08-26 0:39 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-27 3:22 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-08-27 7:39 ` 宋文武
2023-08-28 11:42 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-01 19:12 ` Imran Iqbal
2023-09-03 17:45 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2023-09-03 21:05 ` indieterminacy
2023-09-03 21:16 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2023-09-13 12:20 ` Fannys
2023-09-13 15:42 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-13 23:13 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2023-09-17 11:29 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-18 10:09 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-19 10:33 ` contribute with content in our official help pages? Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-19 16:35 ` The elephant in the room and the Guix Bang Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-19 20:41 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-20 20:52 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-20 8:21 ` Csepp
2023-09-20 8:45 ` The e(macs)lephant " Nguyễn Gia Phong via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-20 9:28 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-20 14:03 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-20 14:09 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-14 8:24 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-18 16:40 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-14 17:49 ` Sarthak Shah
2023-09-15 10:18 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-13 12:25 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-22 15:14 ` Imran Iqbal
2023-09-22 15:30 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-22 16:17 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2023-09-22 16:35 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-22 17:28 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2023-09-25 15:13 ` Enabling contribution through documentation Samuel Christie via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-10-16 20:18 ` Matt
2023-11-06 22:43 ` Samuel Christie via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-11-11 1:14 ` Matt
2023-08-28 6:12 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? (
2023-08-28 9:14 ` Simon Tournier
2023-08-29 9:53 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-05 7:54 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-13 12:59 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-14 8:18 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-08-26 17:40 ` kiasoc5
2023-08-24 9:06 ` Wilko Meyer
2023-08-25 9:31 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-08-26 17:42 ` kiasoc5
2023-08-26 18:53 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-08-26 21:35 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-08-27 8:26 ` Non-committer comments on patches Andreas Enge
2023-08-28 6:17 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? (
2023-08-28 10:01 ` Simon Tournier
2023-08-28 9:26 ` Simon Tournier
2023-08-24 18:53 ` Simon Tournier
2023-08-26 1:02 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-28 10:17 ` Simon Tournier
2023-08-30 16:11 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-08-30 16:53 ` Andreas Enge
2023-08-30 19:02 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-02 11:16 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-02 13:48 ` paul
2023-09-02 19:08 ` Csepp
2023-09-02 20:23 ` wolf
2023-09-02 23:08 ` Csepp
2023-09-04 10:23 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-09-04 12:44 ` brian via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-04 14:35 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-09-04 18:13 ` Andreas Enge
2023-09-05 9:58 ` pinoaffe
2023-09-05 14:22 ` brian via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-05 15:25 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-05 13:19 ` Csepp
2023-09-05 15:30 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-05 19:08 ` Csepp
2023-09-06 12:14 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-09-06 12:56 ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2023-09-06 16:03 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-04 19:16 ` phil
2023-09-04 18:22 ` Andreas Enge
2023-09-02 16:08 ` Csepp
2023-09-02 18:27 ` Mumi search broken? (was: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?) Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-09-03 7:36 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-03 8:53 ` paul
2023-09-03 10:31 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-03 14:53 ` Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-09-04 9:40 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-03 18:18 ` Csepp
2023-09-03 20:32 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-05 8:43 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-05 18:04 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-05 19:15 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-13 13:24 ` MSavoritias
2023-09-05 1:32 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-05 17:19 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-05 14:01 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-05 18:00 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-05 20:39 ` Guix User Survey? Wilko Meyer
2023-09-05 23:55 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Simon Tournier
2023-09-06 2:58 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-06 9:34 ` Next action, survey? Simon Tournier
2023-09-07 20:39 ` Katherine Cox-Buday
2023-09-08 6:31 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? (
2023-09-05 22:11 ` wolf
2023-09-05 23:02 ` Simon Tournier
2023-09-13 13:59 ` MSavoritias
2023-08-28 21:41 ` paul
2023-08-29 8:32 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-08-29 9:31 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-08-29 11:28 ` git interfaces (was Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?) Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-08-29 23:11 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Csepp
2023-08-30 8:39 ` Attila Lendvai
2023-08-30 9:33 ` Andreas Enge
2023-08-30 0:22 ` Danny Milosavljevic
2023-08-30 9:41 ` Andreas Enge
2023-08-30 12:33 ` commit message helpers (was Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?) Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-04 13:36 ` How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-05 3:25 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2023-09-05 7:48 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-04 11:09 ` David Larsson
2023-09-04 22:06 ` Mumi CLI client (was: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?) Arun Isaac
2023-09-05 8:58 ` Debbugs CLI client (was Re: Mumi CLI client (was: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?))) Simon Tournier
2023-09-05 10:37 ` Mumi CLI client (was: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?) Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-08 16:49 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-12 14:55 ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2023-09-13 8:52 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2023-09-13 10:26 ` Commenting bug reports via mumi web interface " Giovanni Biscuolo
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