Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

[Juan Manuel Macías]

Ihor Radchenko writes:

> Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> writes:
>
>> Sorry if this is off topic, but something like this:
>>
>> #+AUTHOR: Fred Astaire
>> #+AUTHOR: Ginger Rogers
>>
>> is exported to LaTeX as:
>>
>> \author{Fred Astaire Ginger Rogers}
>>
>> Shouldn't there be some separation? In LaTeX the usual thing is:
>>
>> \author{Fred Astaire \and Ginger Rogers}
>
> You can do
>
> #+AUTHOR: Fred
> #+AUTHOR: Astaire
>
> #+AUTHOR: and Ginger
> #+AUTHOR: Rogers
>
> The values are simply concatenated before passing to the exporter.
>
> Can we concatenate with "\and"? Sure. But not by default or it would be
> a breaking change.

Thanks for the explanation. I've never made documents with more than one
author, so I've never thought about this scenario. For a moment I
thought org supported more than one author (explicitly, I mean).

Anyway, \and is just a formatting command: add a space between two
authors. Some people may prefer to put a line break \\ or anything else.
Of course, \and (and any other format command) will have a negative
effect on the pdfauthor metadata, which only collects text strings. It
is a similar problem to the one with footnotes, which Maxim commented
on. I think the basic problem is that org uses #+author, #+title, etc.
as a single source for both the metadata strings and the exported
format, i.e. the title, the author, the date that is printed somewhere.

Perhaps the ideal would be to distinguish in some way between
author-metadata and author-exported-format. For example something like:

#+AUTHOR[John Doe and Luke Skywalker]: John Doe @@latex:\and@@ Luke
Skywalker

The optional string in square brackets would be the metadata; the rest
would be the direct exported format. If there is no optional string, the
value is used for both metadata and format. Could this be also a
possible solution to the footnote problem?

Best regards,

Juan Manuel 

-- 
Juan Manuel Macías -- Composición tipográfica, tratamiento de datos, diseño editorial y ortotipografía

Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

[Ihor Radchenko]

Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> writes:

> ... I think the basic problem is that org uses #+author, #+title, etc.
> as a single source for both the metadata strings and the exported
> format, i.e. the title, the author, the date that is printed somewhere.
>
> Perhaps the ideal would be to distinguish in some way between
> author-metadata and author-exported-format. For example something like:
>
> #+AUTHOR[John Doe and Luke Skywalker]: John Doe @@latex:\and@@ Luke
> Skywalker
>
> The optional string in square brackets would be the metadata; the rest
> would be the direct exported format. If there is no optional string, the
> value is used for both metadata and format. Could this be also a
> possible solution to the footnote problem?

Another option is to have a new set of keywords:
#+LATEX_AUTHOR: <author with formatting goes here>
#+HTML_AUTHOR: ...

For multiple authors, we may introduce something like

#+AUTHOR: John Doe
#+AUTHOR+: Luke Skywalker

That should be fully backwards-compatible.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

[Max Nikulin]

On 04/02/2024 22:21, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> 
> Another option is to have a new set of keywords:
> #+LATEX_AUTHOR: <author with formatting goes here>
> #+HTML_AUTHOR: ...
> 
> For multiple authors, we may introduce something like
> 
> #+AUTHOR: John Doe
> #+AUTHOR+: Luke Skywalker

Another idea:

#+metadata:
- author ::
   - John Doe
   - Luke Skywalker
- title :: Some text

With overrides for specific backends

#+metadata: :backend latex
- author :: ....

Perhaps backends may declare if they support footnotes, etc. by defining 
some backend property.

Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

[Juan Manuel Macías]

Max Nikulin writes:

> On 04/02/2024 22:21, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
>> 
>> Another option is to have a new set of keywords:
>> #+LATEX_AUTHOR: <author with formatting goes here>
>> #+HTML_AUTHOR: ...
>> 
>> For multiple authors, we may introduce something like
>> 
>> #+AUTHOR: John Doe
>> #+AUTHOR+: Luke Skywalker
>
> Another idea:
>
> #+metadata:
> - author ::
>    - John Doe
>    - Luke Skywalker
> - title :: Some text
>
> With overrides for specific backends
>
> #+metadata: :backend latex
> - author :: ....
>
> Perhaps backends may declare if they support footnotes, etc. by defining 
> some backend property.

I like both ideas. If I had to choose, perhaps I would prefer Ihor's
approach since it separates the formatting value and the metadata value
using simple keywords. I understand that in the former you could add any
direct format (LaTeX, odt, html...), macros and even footnotes. And if
the former is not explicitly included in the document, then the latter
is used to populate both the formatting value and the metadata value.

Anyway, I think your approach would work very well for more complex pdf
metadata like xmp. Maybe using the hyperxmp package, which you mentioned
in a thread months ago?

Maybe something like this:

#+latex_xmp
...
#+end

?

Best regards,

Juan Manuel 

Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

[Ihor Radchenko]

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

>>  Another option is to have a new set of keywords:
>>  #+LATEX_AUTHOR: <author with formatting goes here>
>>  #+HTML_AUTHOR: ...
> ...
> Another idea:
>
> #+metadata:
> - author ::
>    - John Doe
>    - Luke Skywalker
> - title :: Some text
>
> With overrides for specific backends

This implies that #+AUTHOR may contain markup, while #+metadata should
not; as opposed to my idea with #+AUTHOR being reserved to "plain"
author and #+BACKEND_AUTHOR defining more specific markup.

I feel that my approach is slightly better because you can have
different author markup for different backends when using my suggestion.

> Perhaps backends may declare if they support footnotes, etc. by defining 
> some backend property.

The comment about footnotes belongs to parent thread, not to this
branch.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

[ypuntot]

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Is it related with AUTHOR property?
I am starting to add these properties to every book, and chapter of the book, that I study. I hope this doesn't lead to a suboptimal workflow.

Doesn't this work?

:PROPERTIES:
    :AUTHOR:   García-Ael, Cristina and Pérez-Garín, Daniel and Recio Saboya, Patricia
    :BTYPE:    incollection
    :BOOKTITLE: Psicología de los Grupos
    :TITLE:    Métodos y Técnicas de Investigación en Psicología de los Grupos.
  
    :PUBLISHER: UNED

    :ADDRESS:  C/ Bravo Murillo, 38; 28015; Madrid
    :INSTITUTION: UNED
    :YEAR:     2017
    :CHAPTER:  2
    :PAGES:    49-83
    :END:

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Re: Exporting multiple #+AUTHOR keywords

[Juan Manuel Macías]

ypuntot writes:

> Is it related with AUTHOR property? 
> I am starting to add these properties to every book, and chapter of
> the book, that I study. I hope this doesn't lead to a suboptimal
> workflow. 
>
> Doesn't this work? 
>
> :PROPERTIES: 
>     :AUTHOR:   García-Ael, Cristina and Pérez-Garín, Daniel and Recio
> Saboya, Patricia 
>     :BTYPE:    incollection 
>     :BOOKTITLE: Psicología de los Grupos 
>     :TITLE:    Métodos y Técnicas de Investigación en Psicología de
> los Grupos. 
>    
>     :PUBLISHER: UNED 
>
>     :ADDRESS:  C/ Bravo Murillo, 38; 28015; Madrid 
>     :INSTITUTION: UNED 
>     :YEAR:     2017 
>     :CHAPTER:  2 
>     :PAGES:    49-83 
>     :END: 


What we are dealing with here is the keyword #+AUTHOR or the
EXPORT_AUTHOR property (when exporting a subtree), that is, the author
of the document (see 'Export settings' in the Org Manual), not the
AUTHOR property of org-ref. Your workflow is correct.