Looking for the perfect mail client

Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Dear all,

I'm wondering whether there's a notmuch mail client
- with a handling similar to alot
- which is capable to show html content without html2ascii conversion
- which can use vim as editor
- which doesn't need a web browser
- which doesn't need a mouse
- which is fast

In principle, alot is the perfect mail client for me except that I've
many problems with all the html mails people send to me. So I'm wondering
whether anybody knows a webkit based alot fork or something similar. It's
strange that after so many years I'm still looking for the perfect mail
client.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Simon Chopin]

Hi Sepp,

Quoting Sepp Tannhuber (2014-10-21 12:02:37)
> Dear all,
> 
> I'm wondering whether there's a notmuch mail client
> - with a handling similar to alot
> - which is capable to show html content without html2ascii conversion
> - which can use vim as editor
> - which doesn't need a web browser

You can't show HTML content without a web browser or a conversion
to ascii AFAIK (BTW, alot uses w3m, which is a web browser :-) ). So you need
to choose between the two (or viewing raw HTML, of course)

> - which doesn't need a mouse
> - which is fast

That last point is my main problem with alot. There are some algorithms
within the widgets that seem unobviously slow to me.

> In principle, alot is the perfect mail client for me except that I've
> many problems with all the html mails people send to me. So I'm wondering
> whether anybody knows a webkit based alot fork or something similar. It's
> strange that after so many years I'm still looking for the perfect mail
> client.

Cheers,
Simon

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Gaute Hope]

Excerpts from Sepp Tannhuber's message of October 21, 2014 12:02:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm wondering whether there's a notmuch mail client
> - with a handling similar to alot
> - which is capable to show html content without html2ascii conversion
> - which can use vim as editor
> - which doesn't need a web browser
> - which doesn't need a mouse
> - which is fast
>
> In principle, alot is the perfect mail client for me except that I've
> many problems with all the html mails people send to me. So I'm wondering
> whether anybody knows a webkit based alot fork or something similar. It's
> strange that after so many years I'm still looking for the perfect mail
> client.

Hi Sepp,

I am working on something called 'astroid' which is a GTK+ and WebKit
based email client for notmuch.

- It can show html parts inline if you choose to.
- It shows previews of image attachments.
- It uses vim (embedded) as editor.
- It is entirely navigated using the keyboard (based on vim)
- It is fairly fast (but requires optimization of some parts) (probably
  disputed).

It is, however, very pre-alpha-beta. If you are brave enough,
please feel free to try it out:

  https://github.com/gauteh/astroid

There are some screenshots here:

  http://gaute.vetsj.com/arkiv/astroid/screenshots/

You can press '?' to get a brief overview of the keybindings (they are
based on those of sup [0]). But I haven't completed the help stuff yet,
in that case refer to the source code (did I mention it was pre-alpha?).

Not all features are ready (notably encryption), but it is complete
enough for daily usage - at least for me.

I was planning to make it a little bit more user friendly to try out and
use before I announced it, but I think it fits your description (it was
at least what I was attempting to solve when I started it). The
README.md [1] covers basic compilation and setup steps, and I tried to
collect what is required for setting astroid up on a fresh Ubuntu in the
wiki [2].

[0] http://supmua.org/
[1] https://github.com/gauteh/astroid/blob/master/README.md
[2] https://github.com/gauteh/astroid/wiki/Ubuntu

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Suvayu Ali]

Hi,

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:42:39PM +0200, Simon Chopin wrote:
> Quoting Sepp Tannhuber (2014-10-21 12:02:37)
> 
> > - which doesn't need a mouse
> > - which is fast
> 
> That last point is my main problem with alot. There are some algorithms
> within the widgets that seem unobviously slow to me.

There is always mutt-kz, Mutt with Notmuch integrated.  I have been
using it for over a year now; no major issues.  I also maintain a Fedora
repository, in case someone wants to try.

http://copr-fe.cloud.fedoraproject.org/coprs/fatka/mutt-kz/
http://copr-fe.cloud.fedoraproject.org/coprs/fatka/notmuch/

Cheers,

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> schrieb am 13:19 Dienstag, 21.Oktober 2014:


> I am working on something called 'astroid' which is a GTK+ and WebKit
> based email client for notmuch.

That's really interesting. From your description, it's exactly what
I would like to have. At the moment, compilation fails:

compiling ==> src/astroid.cc
In file included from src/main_window.hh:7:0,
                 from src/astroid.cc:22:
src/command_bar.hh:23:44: error: expected class-name before '{' token
   class CommandBar : public Gtk::SearchBar {
                                            ^
src/command_bar.hh:38:12: error: 'SearchEntry' in namespace 'Gtk' does not name a type
       Gtk::SearchEntry entry;
            ^
In file included from src/main_window.hh:8:0,
                 from src/astroid.cc:22:
src/modes/mode.hh:35:12: error: 'Revealer' in namespace 'Gtk' does not name a type
       Gtk::Revealer * rev_yes_no;
            ^
scons: *** [src/astroid.o] Error 1
scons: building terminated because of errors.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Gaute Hope]

Excerpts from Sepp Tannhuber's message of October 22, 2014 8:46:
> Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> schrieb am 13:19 Dienstag, 21.Oktober 2014:
>
>
>> I am working on something called 'astroid' which is a GTK+ and WebKit
>> based email client for notmuch.
>
> That's really interesting. From your description, it's exactly what
> I would like to have. At the moment, compilation fails:
>
> compiling ==> src/astroid.cc
> In file included from src/main_window.hh:7:0,
>                  from src/astroid.cc:22:
> src/command_bar.hh:23:44: error: expected class-name before '{' token
>    class CommandBar : public Gtk::SearchBar {
>                                             ^
> src/command_bar.hh:38:12: error: 'SearchEntry' in namespace 'Gtk' does not name a type
>        Gtk::SearchEntry entry;
>             ^
> In file included from src/main_window.hh:8:0,
>                  from src/astroid.cc:22:
> src/modes/mode.hh:35:12: error: 'Revealer' in namespace 'Gtk' does not name a type
>        Gtk::Revealer * rev_yes_no;
>             ^
> scons: *** [src/astroid.o] Error 1
> scons: building terminated because of errors.
>

Thanks for trying!

You need a newer version of GTK+, I think at least version 3.10 (I am
using 3.12 on Arch Linux) [0].

Cheers, Gaute

[0] https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.10/developers.html.en

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Hi Gaute


Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> schrieb am 8:57 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:
> You need a newer version of GTK+, I think at least version 3.10 (I am
> using 3.12 on Arch Linux) [0].




Thanks for your support. Now the linker fails:

linking Program ==> astroid
//lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_strsource@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
//lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_err_code_from_syserror@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
//lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_err_set_errno@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
//lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_strerror@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
//lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_err_code_from_errno@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
scons: *** [astroid] Error 1
scons: building terminated because of errors.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Gaute Hope]

Excerpts from Sepp Tannhuber's message of October 22, 2014 14:23:
> Hi Gaute
>
>
> Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> schrieb am 8:57 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:
>> You need a newer version of GTK+, I think at least version 3.10 (I am
>> using 3.12 on Arch Linux) [0].
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for your support. Now the linker fails:
>
> linking Program ==> astroid
> //lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_strsource@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
> //lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_err_code_from_syserror@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
> //lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_err_set_errno@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
> //lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_strerror@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
> //lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20: undefined reference to `gpg_err_code_from_errno@GPG_ERROR_1.0'
> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
> scons: *** [astroid] Error 1
> scons: building terminated because of errors.

This seems to be an error in one of the libraries used by astroid, I am
guessing gmime -> ... -> libgcrypt > libgpg-error. Do you have
libgpg-error installed? What distro do you run? There seems to be a
package dependency inconsistency somewhere.

What is the output of:

  $ scons --verbose

Cheers, Gaute

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> schrieb am 15:49 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:

> Do you have libgpg-error installed?
No, this was exactly the point. Now, I've compiled it and linked successfully.

> What distro do you run?
Debian stable with many backports from unstable.




The next problem is that astroid doesn't start:

(astroid:12459): Gtk-WARNING **: Could not find the icon 'mail-send-symbolic'. The 'hicolor' theme
was not found either, perhaps you need to install it.
You can get a copy from:
 http://icon-theme.freedesktop.org/releases
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'Gtk::IconThemeError'

I've tried hicolor-icon-theme from debian stable and unstable as well as from
the sources from icon-theme.freedesktop.org. The icon »mail-send-symbolic«
doesn't exist there. However, I've found it on my PC at other locations:

/usr/share/icons/Adwaita/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
/usr/share/icons/mate/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
/usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg

So my next question is, why doesn't astroid find it?

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Gaute Hope]

Excerpts from Sepp Tannhuber's message of October 22, 2014 16:48:
> Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> schrieb am 15:49 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:
> The next problem is that astroid doesn't start:
> 
> (astroid:12459): Gtk-WARNING **: Could not find the icon 'mail-send-symbolic'. The 'hicolor' theme
> was not found either, perhaps you need to install it.
> You can get a copy from:
>  http://icon-theme.freedesktop.org/releases
> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'Gtk::IconThemeError'
> 
> I've tried hicolor-icon-theme from debian stable and unstable as well as from
> the sources from icon-theme.freedesktop.org. The icon »mail-send-symbolic«
> doesn't exist there. However, I've found it on my PC at other locations:
> 
> /usr/share/icons/Adwaita/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
> /usr/share/icons/mate/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
> /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
> 
> So my next question is, why doesn't astroid find it?
 
Maybe it is an issue with the icon cache? Reboot?

Cheers, Gaute

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Gaute Hope]

Excerpts from Sepp Tannhuber's message of October 22, 2014 16:48:
> Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> schrieb am 15:49 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:
> 
>> Do you have libgpg-error installed?
> No, this was exactly the point. Now, I've compiled it and linked successfully.
> 
>> What distro do you run?
> Debian stable with many backports from unstable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The next problem is that astroid doesn't start:
> 
> (astroid:12459): Gtk-WARNING **: Could not find the icon 'mail-send-symbolic'. The 'hicolor' theme
> was not found either, perhaps you need to install it.
> You can get a copy from:
>  http://icon-theme.freedesktop.org/releases
> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'Gtk::IconThemeError'
> 
> I've tried hicolor-icon-theme from debian stable and unstable as well as from
> the sources from icon-theme.freedesktop.org. The icon »mail-send-symbolic«
> doesn't exist there. However, I've found it on my PC at other locations:
> 
> /usr/share/icons/Adwaita/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
> /usr/share/icons/mate/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
> /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/actions/mail-send-symbolic.svg
> 
> So my next question is, why doesn't astroid find it?
> 

I have had some problems with Gtk 3.14 (3.12 works great) in how rows
are rendered, so I am anxious to see how that works on debian.

- gaute

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

I'm unable to solve the icon problem. This gtk message is stupid. I couldn't
find out what's going wrong.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Peter Feigl]

> I'm unable to solve the icon problem. This gtk message is stupid. I couldn't
> find out what's going wrong.

Similar warnings happened to me often in different applications. This is
almost certainly just a warning and not the real problem. Try strace or
gdb to find out what really crashes notmuch.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Peter Feigl <craven@gmx.net> schrieb am 19:38 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:




> Try strace or
> gdb to find out what really crashes notmuch.
Good idea. Can anybody help me to interprete the output:
https://gist.github.com/tannhuber/c7cae862f897efccd3cb

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Justus Winter]

Quoting Sepp Tannhuber (2014-10-23 12:47:10)
> Peter Feigl <craven@gmx.net> schrieb am 19:38 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:
> > Try strace or
> > gdb to find out what really crashes notmuch.
> Good idea. Can anybody help me to interprete the output:
> https://gist.github.com/tannhuber/c7cae862f897efccd3cb

Your process is killed by SIGABRT ;)

Try running it under gdb and obtain a stack trace.

Justus

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Franz Fellner]

Sepp Tannhuber wrote:
> Peter Feigl <craven@gmx.net> schrieb am 19:38 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Try strace or
> > gdb to find out what really crashes notmuch.
> Good idea. Can anybody help me to interprete the output:
> https://gist.github.com/tannhuber/c7cae862f897efccd3cb
HUH?
/usr/share\36/usr/loal/share/pixmaps/hicolor/index.theme
\36 is $, isn't it?
and "loal" should be "local"?
Probably you messed up your env? (.bashrc;/etc/env.d;...)

> 
> _______________________________________________
> notmuch mailing list
> notmuch@notmuchmail.org
> http://notmuchmail.org/mailman/listinfo/notmuch

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Franz Fellner]

Justus Winter wrote:
> Quoting Sepp Tannhuber (2014-10-23 12:47:10)
> > Peter Feigl <craven@gmx.net> schrieb am 19:38 Mittwoch, 22.Oktober 2014:
> > > Try strace or
> > > gdb to find out what really crashes notmuch.
> > Good idea. Can anybody help me to interprete the output:
> > https://gist.github.com/tannhuber/c7cae862f897efccd3cb
> 
> Your process is killed by SIGABRT ;)
Yes, that's how exceptions kill your program.
throw -> (exception not caught) -> std::terminate -> std::terminate_handler -> (default) std::abort

> 
> Try running it under gdb and obtain a stack trace.
> 
> Justus
> _______________________________________________
> notmuch mailing list
> notmuch@notmuchmail.org
> http://notmuchmail.org/mailman/listinfo/notmuch

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Franz Fellner <alpine.art.de@gmail.com> schrieb am 12:58 Donnerstag, 23.Oktober 2014:




> /usr/share\36/usr/loal/share/pixmaps/hicolor/index.theme
> \36 is $, isn't it?
> and "loal" should be "local"?
Any idea how this could happen? And how can I fix it?

> Probably you messed up your env? (.bashrc;/etc/env.d;...)

I don't have these files. There's a /etc/bash.bashrc which looks clean.

RE: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Ian Main]

Sepp Tannhuber wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I'm wondering whether there's a notmuch mail client
> - with a handling similar to alot
> - which is capable to show html content without html2ascii conversion
> - which can use vim as editor
> - which doesn't need a web browser
> - which doesn't need a mouse
> - which is fast
> 
> In principle, alot is the perfect mail client for me except that I've
> many problems with all the html mails people send to me. So I'm wondering
> whether anybody knows a webkit based alot fork or something similar. It's
> strange that after so many years I'm still looking for the perfect mail
> client.

I wonder if you'd be willing to give the vim client a go.  We've done a lot
of work to it lately and I think it would handle all you listed here.

Try the github version as I have all the patches applied there:

https://github.com/imain/notmuch-vim

    Ian

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Ian Main <imain@redhat.com> schrieb am 6:28 Freitag, 24.Oktober 2014:

> I wonder if you'd be willing to give the vim client a go.  We've done a lot
> of work to it lately and I think it would handle all you listed here.
For me, it's hard to get familiar with it because I have not found a detailed
documentation. The README file is not good enough for a stupid person.


I also doubt that it can render html properly.

Nevertheless, I would give it a try if I could find useful documentation.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Ian Main]

Sepp Tannhuber wrote:
> Ian Main <imain@redhat.com> schrieb am 6:28 Freitag, 24.Oktober 2014:
> 
> > I wonder if you'd be willing to give the vim client a go.  We've done a lot
> > of work to it lately and I think it would handle all you listed here.
> For me, it's hard to get familiar with it because I have not found a detailed
> documentation. The README file is not good enough for a stupid person.

Interesting, good feedback.  Is it the usage that is difficult or setup?

> I also doubt that it can render html properly.

Well like any other text based client it uses a text dump of a links or such (I
forget which one).  We have great support for web browser viewing of the email
though if that isn't good enough.

> Nevertheless, I would give it a try if I could find useful documentation.

Let me know if you have suggestions on where it's lacking.  We need a better
installation guide plus a tutorial maybe?

    Ian

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Ian Main <imain@stemwinder.org> schrieb am 18:02 Freitag, 24.Oktober 2014:

> Interesting, good feedback.  Is it the usage that is difficult or setup?
Installation was not a problem for me although the files »notmuch.vim« and 
»notmuch.txt« were not found by »make install« for some reason. So I linked
them into the notmuch-vim directory. After that »make install« succeeded.
But the main obstacle is that new users must find by trial and error that
they must type »s« to search, »t« to tag files and so on. It would be very
useful to list all the key bindings and configuration options.
I still don't know how to compose a new message.

> Well like any other text based client it uses a text dump of a links or such (I
> forget which one).
I think »elinks --dump«

> We have great support for web browser viewing of the email
> though if that isn't good enough.
Yes, it's 2014. ;-)

> Let me know if you have suggestions on where it's lacking. 
Okay, thank you so far.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Ian Main]

Sepp Tannhuber wrote:
> Ian Main <imain@stemwinder.org> schrieb am 18:02 Freitag, 24.Oktober 2014:
> 
> > Interesting, good feedback.  Is it the usage that is difficult or setup?
> Installation was not a problem for me although the files »notmuch.vim« and 
> »notmuch.txt« were not found by »make install« for some reason. So I linked
> them into the notmuch-vim directory. After that »make install« succeeded.
> But the main obstacle is that new users must find by trial and error that
> they must type »s« to search, »t« to tag files and so on. It would be very
> useful to list all the key bindings and configuration options.
> I still don't know how to compose a new message.

https://github.com/imain/notmuch-vim/blob/master/doc/notmuch.txt

Look at the 'MAPPINGS' section.  I think a tutorial might be good though.

> > Well like any other text based client it uses a text dump of a links or such (I
> > forget which one).
> I think »elinks --dump«
> 
> > We have great support for web browser viewing of the email
> > though if that isn't good enough.
> Yes, it's 2014. ;-)

Time flies!!

> > Let me know if you have suggestions on where it's lacking. 
> Okay, thank you so far.

Thanks!

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Sepp Tannhuber]

Ian Main <imain@stemwinder.org> schrieb am 23:33 Freitag, 24.Oktober 2014:

> https://github.com/imain/notmuch-vim/blob/master/doc/notmuch.txt
Aha, the documentation is in the doc directory. Makes sense. :-)
I'm sorry, I have ignored it. Perhaps you could refer to
»notmuch.txt« in the README because it is the first thing people
see when they enter the github page.




> Let me know if you have suggestions on where it's lacking. 
How can I attach files?

Mutt and alot have a feature to attach files with an »Attach:« pseudo
header. It's very powerful because you can use tools like ranger to
attach files quickly.

Vice versa, alot has some problems to show some attachments. This seems
to be well implemented in notmuch-vim.

I would like to test it during the next weeks. Perhaps, I will bother
you with some feature requests on your github page.

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Ian Main]

Sepp Tannhuber wrote:
> Ian Main <imain@stemwinder.org> schrieb am 23:33 Freitag, 24.Oktober 2014:
> 
> > https://github.com/imain/notmuch-vim/blob/master/doc/notmuch.txt
> Aha, the documentation is in the doc directory. Makes sense. :-)
> I'm sorry, I have ignored it. Perhaps you could refer to
> »notmuch.txt« in the README because it is the first thing people
> see when they enter the github page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Let me know if you have suggestions on where it's lacking. 
> How can I attach files?
> 
> Mutt and alot have a feature to attach files with an »Attach:« pseudo
> header. It's very powerful because you can use tools like ranger to
> attach files quickly.
> 
> Vice versa, alot has some problems to show some attachments. This seems
> to be well implemented in notmuch-vim.
> 
> I would like to test it during the next weeks. Perhaps, I will bother
> you with some feature requests on your github page.

Yes you are right, I haven't gotten to sending attached files yet.  I'll
implement that next.

I too like the 'Attach:' thing.

Let me know how you make out!  I'm just noticing that replying is giving me
dup email addresses.  Have to fix that too. :)

    Ian

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Ian Main]

Sepp Tannhuber wrote:
> Ian Main <imain@stemwinder.org> schrieb am 23:33 Freitag, 24.Oktober 2014:
> 
> > https://github.com/imain/notmuch-vim/blob/master/doc/notmuch.txt
> Aha, the documentation is in the doc directory. Makes sense. :-)
> I'm sorry, I have ignored it. Perhaps you could refer to
> »notmuch.txt« in the README because it is the first thing people
> see when they enter the github page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Let me know if you have suggestions on where it's lacking. 
> How can I attach files?
> 
> Mutt and alot have a feature to attach files with an »Attach:« pseudo
> header. It's very powerful because you can use tools like ranger to
> attach files quickly.

OK I added this feature and put it in my github repo.  I'll wait to post it
here because things are getting pretty backed up.

    Ian

Re: Looking for the perfect mail client

[Patrick Totzke]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 993 bytes --]

Hi all,

Quoting Simon Chopin (2014-10-21 11:42:39)
> ...
>
> You can't show HTML content without a web browser or a conversion
> to ascii AFAIK (BTW, alot uses w3m, which is a web browser :-) ). So you need
> to choose between the two (or viewing raw HTML, of course)

Just for completenes's sake: alot might use w3m on your box because you told it
to :) It will happily use whichever html2text converter you set up in your
mailcap (see http://alot.readthedocs.org/en/latest/faq.html point 5).
This set up mirrors that of mutt and other console MUAs.

> > - which is fast
> 
> That last point is my main problem with alot. There are some algorithms
> within the widgets that seem unobviously slow to me.

I agree with you. Out of interest: do you have any specific examples/complaints?
There is a recent fix for some recursion issue within the tree widgets
(https://github.com/pazz/urwidtrees/pull/4) that should solve some related
issues at least.

Best wishes,
/p

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