bug#37676: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

bug#37676: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

[Jean Louis]

From:
Mr. Jean Louis
Nagpur, India
Day 3 of week 41 of 2019


Hello there,

I have seen your signature here:
https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/

My opinion on your signing of that defamatory, harassing, biased and
fact-less statement is here:
https://gnu.support/richard-stallman/Ludovic-Court%C3%A8s-Guix-is-accusing-Stallman-of-Thoughtcrime-on-his-own-domain-GNU-org.html

Hereby I would like to ask you:

- why are you publishing such hatred on GNU.ORG domain? Why don't you
  publish it on your own personal domain? RMS is not doing that to
  GNU. You are doing it together with others. I find it grossly
  inappropriate!

- which facts do you consider that can support your statement "that
  Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of
  the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users. GNU is not
  fulfilling its mission when the behavior of its leader alienates a
  large part of those we want to reach out to."?

It would be nice of you, if you could send me your opinion in as fast
manner as you have given a signature to Ludovic Courtès to publish it
on GUIX.GNU.ORG

I am entitling you to your opinion. I could not care less what people
write about each other, whatever rumours or facts would be. I don't
mind. 

But I do not approve on publishing that on GUIX website or GNU.ORG
website. Neither I approve of publishing such statements without
commenting possibility.

That is why I am asking you to speak out your mind now. I will publish
your opinion or lack of opinion. I will publish facts you provide me
or lack of those facts.

You have contact form on my opposing view:
https://gnu.support/richard-stallman/Ludovic-Court%C3%A8s-Guix-is-accusing-Stallman-of-Thoughtcrime-on-his-own-domain-GNU-org.html
and you can test me if I will publish your comments or not.

But give me facts that support your statement!

Ludovic Courtès is forbidding comments on his personal blog which he
is mixing with GUIX project on GNU.ORG website.

So what is your opinion? What are the facts?

Jean

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

[P]

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:25 AM, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:

> From:
> Mr. Jean Louis
> Nagpur, India
> Day 3 of week 41 of 2019
>
> Hello there,

Stop spamming the list. Thanks.

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS - that statement caused this discussion

[František Kučera]

Dne 09. 10. 19 v 19:06 P napsal(a):
> Stop spamming the list. Thanks.
>
If you did not want to start this discussion, you should not have posted 
that statement on the official Guix blog. You could expect what it would do.

Franta

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

[Wilson Bustos]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 713 bytes --]

Jean Luis,
Seems they don't want to reply, probably because they don't have argument.
Also, the project signs without as anyone to do it, they just did it.
There is not a vote to say 'The project is agree with this issue'.

At least everyone now they don't want to discuss this.
Don't waste your energy on them ;)

Regards!



El mié., 9 oct. 2019 a las 16:32, P (<pronaip@protonmail.com>) escribió:

> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:25 AM, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> wrote:
>
> > From:
> > Mr. Jean Louis
> > Nagpur, India
> > Day 3 of week 41 of 2019
> >
> > Hello there,
>
> Stop spamming the list. Thanks.
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1173 bytes --]

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

[František Kučera]

Dne 09. 10. 19 v 23:41 Wilson Bustos napsal(a):
> Seems they don't want to reply, probably because they don't have argument.
> Also, the project signs without as anyone to do it, they just did it.
> There is not a vote to say 'The project is agree with this issue'.
>
> At least everyone now they don't want to discuss this.
> Don't waste your energy on them ;)

We saw the same behavior on the FSF Member Forum - those people who 
started the which hunt was then unable or unwilling to discuss and bring 
arguments. They rather misused the flag feature in Discourse software as 
a „dislike button“ to hide comments, they do not liked (if three users 
flag a post, it became automatically hidden).

Franta

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

[Jean Louis]

* Wilson Bustos <wrbutros@gmail.com> [2019-10-09 23:42]:
> Jean Luis,

> Seems they don't want to reply, probably because they don't have
> argument.  Also, the project signs without as anyone to do it, they
> just did it.  There is not a vote to say 'The project is agree with
> this issue'.
> 
> At least everyone now they don't want to discuss this.
> Don't waste your energy on them ;)

Yes, I agree with you.

However, those generalized statements are now damaging the image of
Guix then GNU project, and it is giving impression that "all GNU
maintainers" are doing it.

Best thing for those 24 signers to do is to resign from GNU project,
as if they don't like RMS for abort() joke like Ludovic Courtès told
me it was a reason for him to defame RMS, or if they don't like some
of others of his opinions, and that shall be reason for them, then I
propose to Ludovic Courtès to resign and remove the Guix and his
project from the GNU project, including others.

FSF can fork the projects, and has license over majority of GNU
projects. So if any GNU maintainer does not like somebody's face, or
whatever opinions to which everybody is entitled including the RMS,
then they better not be in the GNU Project.

That is like coming to somebody's house and expelling the owner out of
the house because I don't like their wallpapers.

I am asking all those people who have signed the discgraceful
statement to resign from GNU, and find other platform for political
separations and hatred.

Jean

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS - that statement caused this discussion

[Jean Louis]

* František Kučera <konference@frantovo.cz> [2019-10-09 16:39]:
> Dne 09. 10. 19 v 19:06 P napsal(a):
> > Stop spamming the list. Thanks.
> > 
> If you did not want to start this discussion, you should not have posted
> that statement on the official Guix blog. You could expect what it would do.
> 
> Franta

Exactly, that is why I am disturbed, that they are destroying the
community as they are using kind RMS to provide them with the project,
with GNU.ORG and GUIX.GNU.ORG subdomain, mailing lists, hosting space,
people who are supporting FSF they are supporting for reason they are
supporting RMS's ideals, goals and purposes for human rights in free
software.

And they are abusing larger part of that community, donators, using
their funds for criminal acts.

But there is a solution, to let them build their own split community
elsewhere and make it right for the world.

They wish to say that none of those 24 will ever have any opinions
that public will not consider socially not acceptable, they must be 24
new Jesuses, free of sin.

Jean

I am asking those people who are pretending to represent all of the
GNU project and who are defaming and slandering RMS[1] to step down
and resign, do your software hacking somewhere else, you do not
deserve funding that RMS is giving you. Ludovic Courtès, Ricardo
Wurmus, Matt Lee, Andreas Enge, Samuel Thibault, Carlos O'Donell, Andy
Wingo, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso, Mark Wielaard, Ian Lance Taylor,
Werner Koch, Daiki Ueno, Christopher Lemmer Webber, Jan Nieuwenhuizen,
John Wiegley, Tom Tromey, Jeff Law, Han-Wen Nienhuys, Joshua Gay, Ian
Jackson, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice, Andrej Shadura, Zack Weinberg, John
W. Eaton, RESIGN and step down from GNU projects, disassociate
yourself, find another house for your excessive and uncrontollable
fear of the free speech.

Facts:
https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/
https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/
https://gnu.support/richard-stallman/Ludovic-Court%C3%A8s-Guix-is-accusing-Stallman-of-Thoughtcrime-on-his-own-domain-GNU-org.html

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

[Jean Louis]

* Wilson Bustos <wrbutros@gmail.com> [2019-10-09 17:41]:
> Jean Luis,
> Seems they don't want to reply, probably because they don't have argument.
> Also, the project signs without as anyone to do it, they just did it.
> There is not a vote to say 'The project is agree with this issue'.
> 
> At least everyone now they don't want to discuss this.
> Don't waste your energy on them ;)

Thank you, that is right.

No, I am not wasting any energy, I just wish them to move out and form
their stuff elsewhere out of GNU.

Jean

I am asking those people who are pretending to represent all of the
GNU project and who are defaming and slandering RMS[1] to step down
and resign, do your software hacking somewhere else, you do not
deserve funding that RMS is giving you. Ludovic Courtès, Ricardo
Wurmus, Matt Lee, Andreas Enge, Samuel Thibault, Carlos O'Donell, Andy
Wingo, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso, Mark Wielaard, Ian Lance Taylor,
Werner Koch, Daiki Ueno, Christopher Lemmer Webber, Jan Nieuwenhuizen,
John Wiegley, Tom Tromey, Jeff Law, Han-Wen Nienhuys, Joshua Gay, Ian
Jackson, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice, Andrej Shadura, Zack Weinberg, John
W. Eaton, RESIGN and step down from GNU projects, disassociate
yourself, find another house for your excessive and uncrontollable
fear of the free speech.

Facts:
https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/
https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/
https://gnu.support/richard-stallman/Ludovic-Court%C3%A8s-Guix-is-accusing-Stallman-of-Thoughtcrime-on-his-own-domain-GNU-org.html

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS

[Jean Louis]

* František Kučera <konference@frantovo.cz> [2019-10-09 18:11]:
> Dne 09. 10. 19 v 23:41 Wilson Bustos napsal(a):
> > Seems they don't want to reply, probably because they don't have argument.
> > Also, the project signs without as anyone to do it, they just did it.
> > There is not a vote to say 'The project is agree with this issue'.
> > 
> > At least everyone now they don't want to discuss this.
> > Don't waste your energy on them ;)
> 
> We saw the same behavior on the FSF Member Forum - those people who started
> the which hunt was then unable or unwilling to discuss and bring arguments.
> They rather misused the flag feature in Discourse software as a „dislike
> button“ to hide comments, they do not liked (if three users flag a post, it
> became automatically hidden).
> 
> Franta

Well, policies on communication can be established better, if you have
any improvement suggestion, why not write to FSF and those who
maintain that forum?

Jean

I am asking those people who are pretending to represent all of the
GNU project and who are defaming and slandering RMS[1] to step down
and resign, do your software hacking somewhere else, you do not
deserve funding that RMS is giving you. Ludovic Courtès, Ricardo
Wurmus, Matt Lee, Andreas Enge, Samuel Thibault, Carlos O'Donell, Andy
Wingo, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso, Mark Wielaard, Ian Lance Taylor,
Werner Koch, Daiki Ueno, Christopher Lemmer Webber, Jan Nieuwenhuizen,
John Wiegley, Tom Tromey, Jeff Law, Han-Wen Nienhuys, Joshua Gay, Ian
Jackson, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice, Andrej Shadura, Zack Weinberg, John
W. Eaton, RESIGN and step down from GNU projects, disassociate
yourself, find another house for your excessive and uncrontollable
fear of the free speech.

Facts:
https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/
https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/
https://gnu.support/richard-stallman/Ludovic-Court%C3%A8s-Guix-is-accusing-Stallman-of-Thoughtcrime-on-his-own-domain-GNU-org.html

Re: Matt, here is kind question to provide facts on your statements about RMS - that statement caused this discussion

[Hartmut Goebel]

Am 09.10.19 um 22:39 schrieb František Kučera:
> Dne 09. 10. 19 v 19:06 P napsal(a):
>> Stop spamming the list. Thanks.
>>
> If you did not want to start this discussion, you should not have
> posted that statement on the official Guix blog. You could expect what
> it would do.

"P" is not one of the "you". (Neither am I.) Thus your argument is void.

-- 
Regards
Hartmut Goebel

| Hartmut Goebel          | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com               |
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