prototyping the full source bootstrap path

prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1039 bytes --]

Hi!

Now that MesCC starts to build TinyCC that starts to pass a large set of
the mescc C tests, it's time to get walking the bootstrap path.

Attached*) is my initial attempt for the full source bootstrap path in
GuixSD; to try it, do

    ./pre-inst-env guix build mes-boot
    ...
    /gnu/store/lj7h0s33qghgk4zw2nb133riz7xhara9-mes-boot-0.11-0.948dd79/bin/mes --help

The starting point is Jeremiah Orian's stage0 self hosting hex
assembler.  The binary seed of our bootstrap is made explicit in an
additional source download: stage0-seed (of ~400 bytes).  This binary
that is identical with it's ASCII source can be considered "source".

There are still many gaps in our full source bootstrap path to-be, I
"filled" these by adding additional binary seeds: mescc-tools-seed and
mes-seed.  We are working to remove these, that will take some time.

The mes-boot package needs a lot more work and tinycc-boot, gcc-boot
packages are still missing.

Greetings,
janneke


*) Or fetch branch wip-bootstrap: https://gitlab.com/janneke/guix


[-- Attachment #2: 0001-gnu-Add-stage0-boot.patch --]
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From c64a0af956754a22a7900a96260b7615c62c14b1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:03:43 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 1/3] gnu: Add stage0-boot.

* gnu/packages/mes.scm (stag0-boot): New variable.
---
 gnu/packages/mes.scm | 75 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 75 insertions(+)

diff --git a/gnu/packages/mes.scm b/gnu/packages/mes.scm
index dfa421177..1e3631a1e 100644
--- a/gnu/packages/mes.scm
+++ b/gnu/packages/mes.scm
@@ -19,6 +19,7 @@
 (define-module (gnu packages mes)
   #:use-module (gnu packages)
   #:use-module (gnu packages base)
+  #:use-module (gnu packages bootstrap)
   #:use-module (gnu packages commencement)
   #:use-module (gnu packages cross-base)
   #:use-module (gnu packages gcc)
@@ -26,11 +27,85 @@
   #:use-module (gnu packages package-management)
   #:use-module (gnu packages perl)
   #:use-module (guix build-system gnu)
+  #:use-module (guix build-system trivial)
   #:use-module (guix download)
   #:use-module (guix git-download)
   #:use-module (guix licenses)
   #:use-module (guix packages))
 
+(define-public stage0-boot
+ (let ((version "0.0.8")
+        (revision "0")
+        (commit "14843efa5ed13372b1ec32a76d19f27b3febab91"))
+  (package
+    (name "stage0-boot")
+    (version (string-append version "-" revision "." (string-take commit 7)))
+    (synopsis "Manually created initial hex programs for full source bootstrapping")
+    (source (origin
+              (method url-fetch)
+              (uri (string-append "https://gitlab.com/janneke/stage0"
+                                  "/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref="
+                                  commit))
+              (file-name (string-append name "-" version ".tar.xz"))
+              (sha256
+               (base32
+                "0ws5g4r1rnyfaxrnyqzh4qr3w2a3i3wljcc095rk897wi1xz23jz"))))
+    (native-inputs
+     `(("static-bash" ,@(assoc-ref %bootstrap-inputs "bash"))
+       ("bash" ,(search-bootstrap-binary "bash" (%current-system)))
+       ("tar" ,(search-bootstrap-binary "tar" (%current-system)))
+       ("xz"  ,(search-bootstrap-binary "xz" (%current-system)))
+       ("stage0-seed"
+        ,(origin
+           (method url-fetch)
+           (uri (string-append "https://gitlab.com/janneke/stage0-seed"
+                               "/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref="
+                               "87039121e9ab4d48e9bade513c6f328cc9968583"))
+           (file-name (string-append name "-seed" "-" version ".tar.xz"))
+           (sha256
+            (base32
+             "0m18mv825nykj738gg9il60xb8xxc4015ypxgimhygdqxx0n66bp"))))))
+    (supported-systems '("i686-linux" "x86_64-linux"))
+    (build-system trivial-build-system)
+    (arguments
+     `(#:modules ((guix build utils))
+       #:builder
+       (begin
+         (use-modules (guix build utils))
+         (let* ((bash (assoc-ref %build-inputs "static-bash"))
+                (tar (assoc-ref %build-inputs "tar"))
+                (xz (assoc-ref %build-inputs "xz"))
+                (source (assoc-ref %build-inputs "source"))
+                (stage0-seed (assoc-ref %build-inputs "stage0-seed"))
+                (out (assoc-ref %outputs "out"))
+                (out/bin (string-append out "/bin")))
+           (setenv "PATH" (string-append bash "/bin:"
+                                         "../stage0-seed:"
+                                         tar "/bin:"
+                                         xz "/bin"))
+           (format (current-error-port) "PATH=~s\n" (getenv "PATH"))
+           (mkdir-p "source")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "source" "-xvf" source)
+           (mkdir-p "stage0-seed")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "stage0-seed" "-xvf" stage0-seed)
+           (chdir "source")
+           (zero? (system (string-append
+"set -ex;"
+"mkdir -p " out/bin ";"
+"hex Linux\\ Bootstrap/hex.hex > " out/bin "/hex;"
+;; FIXME: exec-enable?
+;;"hex Linux\\ Bootstrap/exec_enable.hex > " out/bin "/exec_enable;"
+;;"exec_enable " out/bin "/hex"
+;;"exec_enable " out/bin "/exec_enable"
+"chmod +x " out/bin "/hex"
+)))))))
+    (description
+     "Stage0 is the initial stage of a full source bootstrapping process.  It
+contains hex0, the initial 400 byte self hosting hex assembler.  It also comes
+with a Knight VM that runs Forth and Lisp.")
+    (home-page "https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/stage0/")
+    (license gpl3+))))
+
 (define-public nyacc
   (package
     (name "nyacc")
-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com


[-- Attachment #3: 0002-gnu-Add-mescc-tools-boot.patch --]
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From 700fc1d3f7ab451f1aca84cd06b02e3cca39eea8 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 11:35:59 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 2/3] gnu: Add mescc-tools-boot.

* gnu/packages/mes.scm (mescc-tools-boot): New variable.
---
 gnu/packages/mes.scm | 96 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 96 insertions(+)

diff --git a/gnu/packages/mes.scm b/gnu/packages/mes.scm
index 1e3631a1e..ef4d4a486 100644
--- a/gnu/packages/mes.scm
+++ b/gnu/packages/mes.scm
@@ -106,6 +106,102 @@ with a Knight VM that runs Forth and Lisp.")
     (home-page "https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/stage0/")
     (license gpl3+))))
 
+(define-public mescc-tools-boot
+ (let ((version "0.2")
+        (revision "0")
+        (commit "fbb9004499c533fd1df7270480a4ff9375ca1f55"))
+  (package
+    (name "mescc-tools-boot")
+    (version (string-append version "-" revision "." (string-take commit 7)))
+    (synopsis "Tools for the full source bootstrapping process")
+    (source (origin
+              (method url-fetch)
+              (uri (string-append "https://gitlab.com/janneke/mescc-tools"
+                                  "/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref="
+                                  commit))
+              (file-name (string-append name "-" version ".tar.xz"))
+              (sha256
+               (base32
+                "1m0syjc2f3pk5fl7msf0v8n7j29wh1bsma269sminp9wh7905m09"))))
+    (native-inputs
+     `(("static-bash" ,@(assoc-ref %bootstrap-inputs "bash"))
+       ("bash" ,(search-bootstrap-binary "bash" (%current-system)))
+       ("tar" ,(search-bootstrap-binary "tar" (%current-system)))
+       ("xz"  ,(search-bootstrap-binary "xz" (%current-system)))
+       ("stage0" ,stage0-boot)
+       ("mescc-tools-seed"
+        ,(origin
+           (method url-fetch)
+           (uri (string-append "https://gitlab.com/janneke/mescc-tools-seed"
+                               "/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref="
+                               "9ec08e82fe2cac94e776470afe1e6a6a59c79159"))
+           (file-name (string-append name "-seed" "-" version ".tar.xz"))
+           (sha256
+            (base32
+             "0liysc4gzsrmankfksd44wbr451sy3pf5c79y2bw74dcnjpx1df2"))))
+       ("mes-source" ,(package-source mes-boot))
+       ("mes-seed"
+        ,(origin
+           (method url-fetch)
+           (uri (string-append "https://gitlab.com/janneke/mes-seed"
+                               "/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref="
+                               "d53d5998666873a79fbd9b4f6742d11affa34b44"))
+           (file-name (string-append "mes-seed-0.11" ".tar.xz"))
+           (sha256
+            (base32
+             "00zk4vfxqjyy3x4s5bdx59zicfqvxyvsbb9mfs4zkwyka64flk34"))))))
+    (supported-systems '("i686-linux" "x86_64-linux"))
+    (build-system trivial-build-system)
+    (arguments
+     `(#:modules ((guix build utils))
+       #:builder
+       (begin
+         (use-modules (guix build utils))
+         (let* ((bash (assoc-ref %build-inputs "static-bash"))
+                (tar (assoc-ref %build-inputs "tar"))
+                (xz (assoc-ref %build-inputs "xz"))
+                (source (assoc-ref %build-inputs "source"))
+                (mescc-tools-seed (assoc-ref %build-inputs "mescc-tools-seed"))
+                (mes-seed (assoc-ref %build-inputs "mes-seed"))
+                (mes-source (assoc-ref %build-inputs "mes-source"))
+                (out (assoc-ref %outputs "out"))
+                (out/bin (string-append out "/bin")))
+           (setenv "PATH" (string-append bash "/bin:"
+                                         "../mescc-tools-seed:"
+                                         tar "/bin:"
+                                         xz "/bin"))
+           (format (current-error-port) "PATH=~s\n" (getenv "PATH"))
+           (mkdir-p "source")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "source" "-xvf" source)
+           (mkdir-p "mescc-tools-seed")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "mescc-tools-seed" "-xvf" mescc-tools-seed)
+           (mkdir-p "mes-source")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "mes-source" "-xvf" mes-source)
+           (mkdir-p "mes-seed")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "mes-seed" "-xvf" mes-seed)
+           (chdir "source")
+           (zero? (system (string-append
+"set -ex;"
+"mkdir -p " out/bin ";"
+"M1 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 -f ../mes-source/stage0/x86.M1 -f ../mescc-tools-seed/hex2.M1 > hex2.hex2;"
+"M1 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 -f ../mes-source/stage0/x86.M1 -f ../mes-seed/crt1.M1 > crt1.hex2;"
+"M1 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 -f ../mes-source/stage0/x86.M1 -f ../mes-seed/libc-mes+tcc.M1 > libc-mes+tcc.hex2;"
+
+"hex2 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 --BaseAddress=0x1000000 -f ../mes-source/stage0/elf32-header.hex2 -f crt1.hex2 -f libc-mes+tcc.hex2 -f hex2.hex2 -f ../mes-source/stage0/elf32-footer-single-main.hex2 > " out/bin "/hex2;"
+"chmod +x " out/bin "/hex2;"
+
+;; FIXME: MORTAL SIN HERE
+;; M1 cannot be bootstrapped yet
+"cp ../mescc-tools-seed/M1 " out/bin "/M1")))))))
+
+    (description
+     "Mescc-tools is a collection of tools for use in a full source
+bootstrapping process.  Currently consists of the M1 macro assembler and the
+hex2 linker.")
+    (home-page "https://github.com/oriansj/mescc-tools")
+    (license gpl3+))))
+
+
 (define-public nyacc
   (package
     (name "nyacc")
-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com


[-- Attachment #4: 0003-gnu-Add-mes-boot.patch --]
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From b7c5e34c0a2a298cb5f519249174d511f369a3c6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 22:55:41 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 3/3] gnu: Add mes-boot.

* gnu/packages/mes.scm (mes-boot): New variable.
---
 gnu/packages/mes.scm | 77 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 77 insertions(+)

diff --git a/gnu/packages/mes.scm b/gnu/packages/mes.scm
index ef4d4a486..8a33ce8a5 100644
--- a/gnu/packages/mes.scm
+++ b/gnu/packages/mes.scm
@@ -201,6 +201,83 @@ hex2 linker.")
     (home-page "https://github.com/oriansj/mescc-tools")
     (license gpl3+))))
 
+(define-public mes-boot
+ (let ((version "0.11")
+        (revision "0")
+        (commit "948dd793619ddd5d930deead082737d14db9674b"))
+  (package
+    (name "mes-boot")
+    (version (string-append version "-" revision "." (string-take commit 7)))
+    (synopsis "Scheme interpreter and C compiler for full source bootstrapping")
+    (source (origin
+              (method url-fetch)
+              (uri (string-append "https://gitlab.com/janneke/mes"
+                                  "/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref="
+                                  commit))
+              (file-name (string-append name "-" version ".tar.xz"))
+              (sha256
+               (base32
+                "1hcfaapq0lg9achkc4565glcy9i23ln7azashi7ncsdv9jy72hmr"))))
+    (build-system trivial-build-system)
+    (supported-systems '("i686-linux" "x86_64-linux"))
+    (native-inputs
+     `(("static-bash" ,@(assoc-ref %bootstrap-inputs "bash"))
+       ("bash" ,(search-bootstrap-binary "bash" (%current-system)))
+       ("tar" ,(search-bootstrap-binary "tar" (%current-system)))
+       ("xz"  ,(search-bootstrap-binary "xz" (%current-system)))
+       ("mescc-tools" ,mescc-tools-boot)
+       ("nyacc-source" ,(package-source nyacc))
+       ("mes-seed"
+        ,(origin
+           (method url-fetch)
+           (uri (string-append "https://gitlab.com/janneke/mes-seed"
+                               "/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref="
+                               "d53d5998666873a79fbd9b4f6742d11affa34b44"))
+           (file-name (string-append "mes-seed-0.11" ".tar.xz"))
+           (sha256
+            (base32
+             "00zk4vfxqjyy3x4s5bdx59zicfqvxyvsbb9mfs4zkwyka64flk34"))))))
+    (arguments
+     `(#:modules ((guix build utils))
+       #:builder
+       (begin
+         (use-modules (guix build utils))
+         (let* ((bash (assoc-ref %build-inputs "static-bash"))
+                (mescc-tools (assoc-ref %build-inputs "mescc-tools"))
+                (tar (assoc-ref %build-inputs "tar"))
+                (xz (assoc-ref %build-inputs "xz"))
+                (source (assoc-ref %build-inputs "source"))
+                (mes-seed (assoc-ref %build-inputs "mes-seed"))
+                (out (assoc-ref %outputs "out"))
+                (out/bin (string-append out "/bin")))
+           (setenv "PATH" (string-append bash "/bin:"
+                                         mescc-tools "/bin:"
+                                         tar "/bin:"
+                                         xz "/bin"))
+           (format (current-error-port) "PATH=~s\n" (getenv "PATH"))
+           (mkdir-p "source")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "source" "-xvf" source)
+           (mkdir-p "mes-seed")
+           (system* "tar" "--strip=1" "-C" "mes-seed" "-xvf" mes-seed)
+           (chdir "source")
+           (zero? (system (string-append
+"set -ex;"
+"mkdir -p " out/bin ";"
+"M1 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 -f stage0/x86.M1 -f ../mes-seed/crt1.M1 > crt1.hex2;"
+"M1 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 -f stage0/x86.M1 -f ../mes-seed/libc-mes.M1 > libc-mes.hex2;"
+"M1 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 -f stage0/x86.M1 -f ../mes-seed/mes.M1 > mes.hex2;"
+"hex2 --LittleEndian --Architecture=1 --BaseAddress=0x1000000 -f stage0/elf32-header.hex2 -f crt1.hex2 -f libc-mes.hex2 -f mes.hex2 -f stage0/elf32-footer-single-main.hex2 > " out/bin "/mes;"
+"chmod +x "  out/bin "/mes;"
+out/bin "/mes --version;")))))))
+    (description
+     "Mes [Maxwell Equations of Software] aims to create full source
+bootstrapping for GuixSD.  It consists of a mutual self-hosting [close to
+Guile-] Scheme interpreter prototype in C and a Nyacc-based C compiler in
+[Guile] Scheme.")
+      (home-page "https://gitlab.com/janneke/mes")
+      (license gpl3+))))
+
+;;;\f
 
 (define-public nyacc
   (package
-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com


[-- Attachment #5: Type: text/plain, Size: 152 bytes --]


-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: [bootstrappable] prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Ludovic Courtès]

Heya Jan,

Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> skribis:

> Now that MesCC starts to build TinyCC that starts to pass a large set of
> the mescc C tests, it's time to get walking the bootstrap path.

Woohoo!

> Attached*) is my initial attempt for the full source bootstrap path in
> GuixSD; to try it, do
>
>     ./pre-inst-env guix build mes-boot
>     ...
>     /gnu/store/lj7h0s33qghgk4zw2nb133riz7xhara9-mes-boot-0.11-0.948dd79/bin/mes --help
>
> The starting point is Jeremiah Orian's stage0 self hosting hex
> assembler.  The binary seed of our bootstrap is made explicit in an
> additional source download: stage0-seed (of ~400 bytes).  This binary
> that is identical with it's ASCII source can be considered "source".
>
> There are still many gaps in our full source bootstrap path to-be, I
> "filled" these by adding additional binary seeds: mescc-tools-seed and
> mes-seed.  We are working to remove these, that will take some time.
>
> The mes-boot package needs a lot more work and tinycc-boot, gcc-boot
> packages are still missing.

Sounds like a good start.

So the next steps in the dependency graph are:

  mes-boot -> mescc -> tinycc -> gcc@4.7 -> gcc

Do I get this right?

Also, AIUI, stage0 is i386-specific.  Thoughts on how we can eventually
support the other architectures Guix works on?

Thank you, and congrats on this milestone!

Ludo’.

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> So the next steps in the dependency graph are:
>
>   mes-boot -> mescc -> tinycc -> gcc@4.7 -> gcc
>
> Do I get this right?

It’s not clear yet.  An alternative approach is to try to build Guile
first by using mes as the bootstrap Scheme interpreter.

Also: I wonder if we can simplify these bootstrap packages in Guix, so
that they can be built with even fewer build-time features.

--
Ricardo

GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6  2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC
https://elephly.net

RE: [bootstrappable] prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)]

> Now that MesCC starts to build TinyCC that starts to pass a large set of the mescc C tests, it's time to get walking the bootstrap path.
> Attached*) is my initial attempt for the full source bootstrap path in GuixSD; to try it, do
Very nicely done Janneke


>The starting point is Jeremiah Orian's stage0 self hosting hex assembler.  The binary seed of our bootstrap is made explicit in an additional source
> download: stage0-seed (of ~400 bytes).  This binary that is identical with it's ASCII source can be considered "source".
:D

> There are still many gaps in our full source bootstrap path to-be, I "filled" these by adding additional binary seeds: mescc-tools-seed and 
> mes-seed.  We are working to remove these, that will take some time.
I'll try to schedule some time to hammer on these

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Ricardo Wurmus writes:

> Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> So the next steps in the dependency graph are:
>>
>>   mes-boot -> mescc -> tinycc -> gcc@4.7 -> gcc
>>
>> Do I get this right?

That has been my idea for a long time, yes...but it may not be feasible,
wise or most fun.  It may not be feasible because Mes Scheme is just
tooo slow.  We could look into fixing that, or try to avoid it by

> It’s not clear yet.  An alternative approach is to try to build Guile
> first by using mes as the bootstrap Scheme interpreter.

...yeah bootstrapping into to Guile Scheme early!  Something like

   mes-boot -> mescc -> mini-guile -> mescc+/guilecc -> gcc@4.7

That's a very tempting idea that Ricardo came up with in Berlin and we
even hacked quite a bit on this.  To be precise, we looked if Mes could
run ice-9/eval.scm.

One of the targets that had on my list for a long time is
libguile/eval.c.  Now I'm starting to wonder, what would be the fastest
path to a minimal Guile, and what would we need for that?  IIUC, Guile
does not run without at least some bits of libguile, such as
libguile/strings.c.  Thoughts?

> Also: I wonder if we can simplify these bootstrap packages in Guix, so
> that they can be built with even fewer build-time features.

Yeah, the mean reason to do it in Guix packages is that it becomes
impossible to cheat.  However, coding the bootstrap path in Guix means
that we depend on some form of Guile...hmm.

janneke

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com

RE: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)]

> Yeah, the mean reason to do it in Guix packages is that it becomes impossible to cheat.  However, coding the bootstrap path in Guix 
> means that we depend on some form of Guile...hmm.
Easy to break, simply allow each piece to be able to be built using only a trivial shell script

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Ludovic Courtès writes:

Hey Ludo'

> Also, AIUI, stage0 is i386-specific.  Thoughts on how we can eventually
> support the other architectures Guix works on?

I goofed ere.  Stage0 is mainly using a VM and it has a x86_64
prototype; no x86 yet.  Of course, creating the x86 hex0 is almost
trivial given that 64 bit has been done.

However, the main problem is the gap between hex0 and hex1, hex2.  We
just ignored this by prototyping hex2 and M2 in C.  hex2 and M2 are
architecture agnostic.

MesCC currently outputs M2, but only for x86.  I'm confident that if we
show that x86 works and if we consider it to be of value, then x86_64 is
just more work.  Other architectures...well, "just" more work ;-)

> Thank you, and congrats on this milestone!

Thanks!
janneke

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Gábor Boskovits]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1357 bytes --]

We had a discussion about that on the irc channel, and it seems, that we
can make a boostrap path to another architecture by using a bootstrapped
toolchain and cross compiling. It is not very confortable, but I think we
can extend the list of bootstrappable software considerably by that.

2017-11-20 19:48 GMT+01:00 Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>:

> Ludovic Courtès writes:
>
> Hey Ludo'
>
> > Also, AIUI, stage0 is i386-specific.  Thoughts on how we can eventually
> > support the other architectures Guix works on?
>
> I goofed ere.  Stage0 is mainly using a VM and it has a x86_64
> prototype; no x86 yet.  Of course, creating the x86 hex0 is almost
> trivial given that 64 bit has been done.
>
> However, the main problem is the gap between hex0 and hex1, hex2.  We
> just ignored this by prototyping hex2 and M2 in C.  hex2 and M2 are
> architecture agnostic.
>
> MesCC currently outputs M2, but only for x86.  I'm confident that if we
> show that x86 works and if we consider it to be of value, then x86_64 is
> just more work.  Other architectures...well, "just" more work ;-)
>
> > Thank you, and congrats on this milestone!
>
> Thanks!
> janneke
>
> --
> Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
> Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com
>
>

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Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Ludovic Courtès]

Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> skribis:

> Ricardo Wurmus writes:
>
>> Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> So the next steps in the dependency graph are:
>>>
>>>   mes-boot -> mescc -> tinycc -> gcc@4.7 -> gcc
>>>
>>> Do I get this right?
>
> That has been my idea for a long time, yes...but it may not be feasible,
> wise or most fun.  It may not be feasible because Mes Scheme is just
> tooo slow.  We could look into fixing that, or try to avoid it by
>
>> It’s not clear yet.  An alternative approach is to try to build Guile
>> first by using mes as the bootstrap Scheme interpreter.
>
> ...yeah bootstrapping into to Guile Scheme early!  Something like
>
>    mes-boot -> mescc -> mini-guile -> mescc+/guilecc -> gcc@4.7

It wouldn’t really help in that mescc+/guilecc is just as capable as the
earlier mescc, no?

> That's a very tempting idea that Ricardo came up with in Berlin and we
> even hacked quite a bit on this.  To be precise, we looked if Mes could
> run ice-9/eval.scm.
>
> One of the targets that had on my list for a long time is
> libguile/eval.c.  Now I'm starting to wonder, what would be the fastest
> path to a minimal Guile, and what would we need for that?  IIUC, Guile
> does not run without at least some bits of libguile, such as
> libguile/strings.c.  Thoughts?

Indeed, Guile needs a C compiler.

In general, we need a C compiler early on… unless we have replacements
for Bash, Coreutils, etc. written in Guile or Mes, which would allow us
to strip bits of the tip of the DAG.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

RE: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)]

> It wouldn’t really help in that mescc+/guilecc is just as capable as the earlier mescc, no?
There is however a real difference in terms of performance, guile is simply faster

> Indeed, Guile needs a C compiler.
Technically, it could be built from a lisp compiler

> In general, we need a C compiler early on… unless we have replacements for 
> Bash
Rain1 is working on that

> Coreutils, etc. written in Guile or Mes, which would allow us to strip bits of the tip of the DAG.
Actually we only need a core subset of coreutils that mescc can compile, which ironically is a small job should one use openbsd's core as a base

Essentially build from the stage0-seed to mescc, build the essentials only, then simply add pieces as we need them.

No need to make this any more complex than it already is.

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB) writes:

>> It wouldn’t really help in that mescc+/guilecc is just as capable as the earlier mescc, no?
> There is however a real difference in terms of performance, guile is simply faster

Plus there is another angle on this.  MesCC, the bootstrap C compiler in
Scheme, is not a intended to be used beyond bootstrapping.  A C compiler
on top of Guile however, could be a very interesting project and could
easily target gcc; possibly attempt C++.  I may just be dreaming...

>> Indeed, Guile needs a C compiler.
> Technically, it could be built from a lisp compiler

Hmm, it's my understanding that Guile is pretty heavily tied to
libguile/*.c.  What makes you think that it's possible for Guile to run
without libguile/*.c?

janneke

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com

RE: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)]

> Plus there is another angle on this.  MesCC, the bootstrap C compiler in Scheme, is not a intended to be used beyond bootstrapping. 
And probably will lose features over time not directly related to the act of bootstrapping itself

> A C compiler on top of Guile however, could be a very interesting project and could easily target gcc; possibly attempt C++.
Well mescc is well on its way to that

> I may just be dreaming...
I hope not

> Hmm, it's my understanding that Guile is pretty heavily tied to libguile/*.c.  What makes you think that it's possible for Guile to run
> without libguile/*.c?
https://wingolog.org/archives/2016/01/11/the-half-strap-self-hosting-and-guile

Specifically "The bootstrap C interpreter in libguile loads the Scheme compiler and builds eval.go from eval.scm"

Thus by simply having a scheme compiler able to compile eval.scm, we can skip the libguile/*.c Assuming I interpreted that situation correctly

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi,

"Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)" <OriansJ@michigan.gov> writes:

>> Hmm, it's my understanding that Guile is pretty heavily tied to
>> libguile/*.c.  What makes you think that it's possible for Guile to
>> run without libguile/*.c?
> https://wingolog.org/archives/2016/01/11/the-half-strap-self-hosting-and-guile
>
> Specifically "The bootstrap C interpreter in libguile loads the Scheme
> compiler and builds eval.go from eval.scm"
>
> Thus by simply having a scheme compiler able to compile eval.scm, we
> can skip the libguile/*.c  Assuming I interpreted that situation
> correctly

Jan is correct that Guile is still heavily tied to its C code.  It's
true that Guile's compiler is written in Scheme and that the C evaluator
is used only during bootstrapping, but the C bootstrap evaluator is only
a small piece of libguile.  The majority of libguile is still needed.
Notably, the entire runtime, the VM, and implementations of many data
structures and other libraries are written in C.

       Mark

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1269 bytes --]

Ricardo Wurmus writes:

> Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> So the next steps in the dependency graph are:
>>
>>   mes-boot -> mescc -> tinycc -> gcc@4.7 -> gcc
>>
>> Do I get this right?

Possibly: yes.

I have added tinycc-boot including tests.  I mean to refactor the
builders and just for fun add gcc-4.7.4 to this picture (see attached).

It's pretty exciting for me that I'm able to show a dependency diagram
generated by Guix of packages that build, that shows a compiler (tinycc)
that only depends on some much smaller seeds.

> Also: I wonder if we can simplify these bootstrap packages in Guix, so
> that they can be built with even fewer build-time features.

If you fetch branch wip-bootstrap from*) https://gitlab.com/janneke/guix
and run

    ./pre-inst-env guix graph --type=bag-with-origins tcc-boot > bag+origins.dot

you get a clear understanding of what Ricardo was saying: you'll find
the nice and clean attached image tucked away in the top right corner,
above an enormous cloud of dependencies...ugh!

Is there a way to use replace the guile-2.2.2 dependency with the static
bootstrap tarball guile-2.0.9?  That would already help a lot!

*) should i push this to savannah wip-bootstrap?

janneke


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-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi janneke,

> Is there a way to use replace the guile-2.2.2 dependency with the static
> bootstrap tarball guile-2.0.9?  That would already help a lot!

You can override the “guile-for-build” in the GNU build system by
passing “#:guile ,my-guile” as an argument.

> *) should i push this to savannah wip-bootstrap?

Please do!

--
Ricardo

GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6  2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC
https://elephly.net

Re: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Ricardo Wurmus writes:

Hey Ricardo,
>> Is there a way to use replace the guile-2.2.2 dependency with the static
>> bootstrap tarball guile-2.0.9?  That would already help a lot!
>
> You can override the “guile-for-build” in the GNU build system by
> passing “#:guile ,my-guile” as an argument.

Thanks...but hmm.  I added this to all my packages (I think...I'm using the trivial build
system) and when i do

    ./pre-inst-env guix graph --type=bag-with-origins gcc-boot  | dot -Tsvg > bootstrap.svg

I still see our beautiful [almost-] full source bootstrap dependency
graph in the top right corner and a guile-2.2.2 dependency with the full
GNU build system cloud below it...

While this is not at all urgent, I do think you raised an important
concern here.  Could do with some more help :-)

>> *) should i push this to savannah wip-bootstrap?
>
> Please do!

Done!

Try something like

    git clone https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git guix-bootstrap
    cd guix-bootstrap
    git checkout wip-bootstrap
    ./configure # your options here
    make && ./pre-inst-env guix build gcc-boot
    ./pre-inst-env guix graph --type=bag-with-origins gcc-boot\
        | dot -Tsvg > bootstrap.svg

This should fail with

    checking for the correct version of gmp.h... no
    configure: error: Building GCC requires GMP 4.2+, MPFR 2.3.1+ and MPC 0.8.0+.
    Try the --with-gmp, --with-mpfr and/or --with-mpc options to specify
    their locations.  Source code for these libraries can be found at
    their respective hosting sites as well as at
    ftp://gcc.gnu.org/pub/gcc/infrastructure/.  See also

Note that mes-tcc also still fails some tests and that we run mescc on
Guile rather than on Mes because of severe Mes Scheme performance
issues.

Happy bootstrapping!
janneke

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com

RE: [bootstrappable] Re: prototyping the full source bootstrap path

[Orians, Jeremiah (DTMB)]

> Jan is correct that Guile is still heavily tied to its C code.  It's true that Guile's compiler is written in Scheme and that
>  the C evaluator is used only during bootstrapping, but the C bootstrap evaluator is only a small piece of libguile. 
> The majority of libguile is still needed. Notably, the entire runtime, the VM, and implementations of many data
> structures and other libraries are written in C.

Thank you for correcting my mistaken assumption.