Re: Merging the purge-python2-packages branch

[zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2022 at 22:30, Maxime Devos <maximedevos@telenet.be> wrote:

>> (from [0])
>> Sunsetting Python 2
>> [...]
>> We did not want to hurt the people using Python 2. So, in 2008, we
>> announced that we would sunset Python 2 in 2015,
>
> This is a 5 year grace period, which is already a lot of weeks.
> Futhermore, this has even been extended for five additional years:

Following this argument, the question is therefore: why Python 2
packages had been included in Guix in the first place since most
inclusions had already been post this grace period? :-)


> That said, I suppose it would have been better to also repeat the
> message about the grace period on the blog, channel news and info-guix
> (and maybe on IRC too, why not) as you seem to suggest, for people that
> follow distro news but not upstream news, given the large impact (many
> python2 packages)?

I personally do not follow all the upstream code that I run.  I trust
the distro for that.  I guess most people follow distro news for most of
the things they basically run and install from their disto.  I would be
interested to know how many people who use pandoc also follow GHC
development, who use unison and also follow OCaml, who use VLC and
follow GCC, etc. Who used ’wicd’ and also followed Python.

Well, it is off-topic. :-)

To be honest, I am also surprised by the answers trying to justify what
appears to me a breakage of what a distro means.  Maybe my feelings are
wrong, from my point of view, Guix is currently at a crossroad: people
outside the hobbyist’s circle are starting to run Guix in production, or
at least they are starting to think about it.  By doing sudden
transition, we appear abrupt as a distro and the message between the
lines is «Guix is not reliable as a distro».  All such big transition is
difficult whatever the distro [1,2,3].  The aim of a distro is to smooth
user transition, IMHO, which means communicate explicitly for preparing.

Do not take me wrong, I am not making a case for this Python 2 purge.

Now, many Python 2 is gone from Guix.  Despite my concerns, I am really
happy by this achievement and I am very grateful to Maxim for making it
happen.  For having done some janitor tasks in Guix, I know how tedious
this job can be and I am thankful for the heavy and not-fun work that
Maxim did.

In short, I have an opinion for the path at this crossroad and using
this Python 2 purge as example, I am trying to gently express it.


Cheers,
simon

1: <https://wiki.debian.org/Python/2Removal>
2: <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FinalizingFedoraSwitchtoPython3>
3: <https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2020-09-28-python-2-7-cleanup.html>