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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1654155556; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=pp7afIr2n92G6a8/bPU5e2leWExyH+dePiF+KYRPd6Q=; b=DhjYElmD8lhQsFh5FG81khCIGtM7ogZZqDA4EEPV667AAlgtL7Rmq1NVb61zXJr0wa7R/U pIIU9dhW4lIQDYGx7GXye9WMTbhJUYx8BL78gsqXYwoPg+5Qfr6p124Gg4yBr3mckHU3cl mzbvtfn0I3NiLoPSaCgPy3pwSvfZz9o6x2pqN5EAnjg51NqYc3cYLYYivn+0Q+E3YDqKxz t+HGSn2Uc23sJuw2RY/lYXdISDmNhcRtUVMjdLOYgsLttBfj5s0QiYx3d2mSbFyEiHC2MG eT4m3dmZSuGLVyzHjkiQxfjTInYAXozuQg4x/zQS0jyinUudLJmxYvY3V0B5SQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1654155556; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=KJ0lsPlkp/HnOG6D5IxcBft3GT0vL5AcP9vUZYFz8BV4BZxmGXIlexpN5IllR4h8goLsdB dxipX7qG5mhoB+OTzKEoSmaRf10d0f6VRQ6pdDZLliKnpabhVFpVwwmIWCxiA+wh0bPbyG qmBrUoYkSNf8Mzev3msX5/AFcUz55GQas3Jv5M3dLaOTlZiMbv570XB3fsGzDeXcXtJArC J6Gp5QwZygHxirE5uwveuuGVN6M3O44Gh5BmgofGopLrhbDSSF7jdvP9gaJWWyE1/XjCeS UW7Hcm6NiFkn4WZaCBTFsG0uYk+iEedJf/78k2bMsgOsmfh622VCRnQptXN1gw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=mtGDAq6A; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.33 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=mtGDAq6A; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2825C10AC9 X-Spam-Score: -8.33 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: UBK4n2ba/j7S On Wed, 01 Jun 2022 at 22:30, Maxime Devos wrote: >> (from [0]) >> Sunsetting Python 2 >> [...] >> We did not want to hurt the people using Python 2. So, in 2008, we >> announced that we would sunset Python 2 in 2015, > > This is a 5 year grace period, which is already a lot of weeks. > Futhermore, this has even been extended for five additional years: Following this argument, the question is therefore: why Python 2 packages had been included in Guix in the first place since most inclusions had already been post this grace period? :-) > That said, I suppose it would have been better to also repeat the > message about the grace period on the blog, channel news and info-guix > (and maybe on IRC too, why not) as you seem to suggest, for people that > follow distro news but not upstream news, given the large impact (many > python2 packages)? I personally do not follow all the upstream code that I run. I trust the distro for that. I guess most people follow distro news for most of the things they basically run and install from their disto. I would be interested to know how many people who use pandoc also follow GHC development, who use unison and also follow OCaml, who use VLC and follow GCC, etc. Who used =E2=80=99wicd=E2=80=99 and also followed Python. Well, it is off-topic. :-) To be honest, I am also surprised by the answers trying to justify what appears to me a breakage of what a distro means. Maybe my feelings are wrong, from my point of view, Guix is currently at a crossroad: people outside the hobbyist=E2=80=99s circle are starting to run Guix in productio= n, or at least they are starting to think about it. By doing sudden transition, we appear abrupt as a distro and the message between the lines is =C2=ABGuix is not reliable as a distro=C2=BB. All such big transi= tion is difficult whatever the distro [1,2,3]. The aim of a distro is to smooth user transition, IMHO, which means communicate explicitly for preparing. Do not take me wrong, I am not making a case for this Python 2 purge. Now, many Python 2 is gone from Guix. Despite my concerns, I am really happy by this achievement and I am very grateful to Maxim for making it happen. For having done some janitor tasks in Guix, I know how tedious this job can be and I am thankful for the heavy and not-fun work that Maxim did. In short, I have an opinion for the path at this crossroad and using this Python 2 purge as example, I am trying to gently express it. Cheers, simon 1: 2: 3: