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From: "Jonathan McHugh" <indieterminacy@libre.brussels>
To: "Tobias Geerinckx-Rice" <me@tobias.gr>,
	"zimoun" <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>
Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Public guix offload server
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 07:23:20 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <50ef77c254dc1a2ecbad72de66119710@libre.brussels> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mtn256it.fsf@nckx>

I have utmost confidence in the Guix project, it has lots of smart and inquisitive people to suppliment its accountable structures - a very useful bulwark against exploitative behaviour!

====================
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy@libre.brussels

October 22, 2021 12:59 AM, "Tobias Geerinckx-Rice" <me@tobias.gr> wrote:

> All,
> 
> zimoun 写道:
> 
>> Do you mean that trusted users would try WM-escape exploits?
>>> The world has been formed by warewolves inside communities
>>> purposely
>>> causing harm. Looking further back, Oliver the Spy is a classic
>>> examplar of trust networks being hollowed out.
> 
> So…
> 
>> I cannot assume that on one hand one trusted person pushes to
>> the main
>> Git repo in good faith and on other hand this very same trusted
>> person
>> behaves as a warewolves using a shared resource.
> 
> …li'l' sleepy here, bewarned, but before this gets out of hand: I
> never implied direct abuse of trust by committers. I don't
> consider it the main threat[0].
> 
> There are the people you meet at FOSDEM and the users who log into
> machines. Both can be compromised, but the latter are much easier
> and more likely to be.
> 
> Such compromise is not laughable or hypothetical: it happens
> *constantly*. It's how kernel.org was utterly owned[1].
> 
> Trusting people not to be evil is not the same as having to trust
> the opsec habits of every single one of them. Trust isn't
> transitive. Personally, I don't think a rogue zimoun will
> suddenly decide to abuse us. I think rogues will abuse zimoun the
> very first chance they get.
> 
> That's not a matter of degree: it's a whole different threat
> model, as is injecting arbitrary binaries vs. pushing malicious
> code commits. Both are bad news, but there's an order of
> magnitude difference between the two.
> 
>> For sure, one can always abuse the trust. Based on this
>> principle, we
>> could stop any collaborative work right now. The real question
>> is the
>> evaluation of the risk of such abuse by trusted people after
>> long period
>> of collaboration (that’s what committer usually means).
> 
> Isn't that the kind of hands-up-in-the-air why-bother
> nothing's-perfect fatalism I thought your Python quote (thanks!)
> was trying to warn me about? ;-)
> 
> Zzz,
> 
> T G-R
> 
> [0]: That's probably no more than an optimistic human flaw on my
> part and ‘disgruntled ex-whatevers’ are probably more of a threat
> that most orgs dare to admit.
> 
> [1]: I know, ancient history, but I'm working from memory here.
> I'm sure it would be trivial to find a more topical example.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-10-22  7:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-10-20 20:53 Public guix offload server Arun Isaac
2021-10-20 21:06 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-10-20 22:54   ` Leo Famulari
2021-10-21 16:46     ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-10-21  8:12   ` zimoun
2021-10-21 16:31     ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-10-21 18:04       ` zimoun
2021-10-21 21:15       ` Jonathan McHugh
2021-10-21 21:51         ` zimoun
2021-10-21 22:16           ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-10-22  7:33             ` zimoun
2021-10-23  5:49               ` Arun Isaac
2021-10-23  7:23                 ` zimoun
2021-10-24  6:43                   ` Arun Isaac
2021-10-25  9:27                     ` indieterminacy
2021-10-22  7:23           ` Jonathan McHugh [this message]
2021-10-21 20:23   ` Arun Isaac
2021-10-29 12:04     ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-10-29 12:01   ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-10-20 22:56 ` Leo Famulari
2021-10-21 15:49   ` Joshua Branson
2021-10-21 16:41     ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-10-21 17:22     ` Vagrant Cascadian
2021-10-29 12:06       ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-10-29 12:44         ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-10-21 23:40     ` jbranso

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